The Art of Selling Online Courses

Delegating and Hiring Tips - with Noel Andrews

August 17, 2023 John Ainsworth Season 1 Episode 101
The Art of Selling Online Courses
Delegating and Hiring Tips - with Noel Andrews
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Join me as we dive deep into the world of strategic hiring and team building with special guest Noel Andrews, the CEO of JobRack.

We will discuss how to identify the right tasks to delegate, assess the benefits of hiring, and effectively manage a remote team.

Uncover the power of affordable outsourcing, leveraging resources from Eastern Europe, and ensuring a smooth hiring process from defining roles to making the perfect candidate selection. 

Whether you're considering hiring an assistant or expanding your team for business growth, Noel's expertise will guide you every step of the way. 


Speaker 1:

where people will come to us and they'll be like there's no one that's gonna want to do my really dull admin tasks or bookkeeping things like that. And yeah, there is an entire industry of people that really love, you know, methodical, repeated tasks, the kind of stuff that you and me hey, so that you can absolutely find people that are way better than you. But even if they're not as good as you especially on day one, cause it's gonna take them time to build up doesn't actually matter, because most of the time, just getting the thing done well enough is often good enough and they can then grow to be better.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the art of selling online courses. We're here to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. My name is John Ainsworth and today's guest is Noel Andrews. Noel is all about connecting people. Professionally, he runs JobRackeu, where he helps business owners hire actually awesome team members from Eastern Europe. We've hired a lot through JobRack have done for many years. I fucking love it. It's absolutely fantastic. Personally, he loves arranging gatherings, parties, dinners, events, having great conversations with great people. Today we're gonna be talking about hiring when to hire, who to hire, how much to pay them, how to hire successfully, how to manage a remote team all these different things. Now, before we dive into our interview with Noel, I wanna remind you that you can learn how to two to five times your revenue by going to datadrivenmarketingco comcom.

Speaker 2:

This is a 45 minute presentation that I gave to hundreds of online course creators about the process that we use with our clients to two to five times people's revenue. I have had people come up to me at conferences after watching this presentation who have made tens of thousands of dollars from just one of the techniques I mentioned this last week. But we actually had this conference, me and Noel organized along with our friend Shona In London. Somebody came up to me and he said I implemented the technique that you mentioned in your presentation. I said how much money did you make from it? He said tens of thousands of dollars. I said, did you implement technique number two? And he's like, oh no, I forgot there was anything else. And he's like all right, go back, watch it again, implement technique number two and come and tell me about it next time. So I got a datadrivenmarketingcocom To sign up.

Speaker 2:

Noel, welcome to the show man. Good to have you here. Cheers, john. Good to be here, man. So talk to us about this. How do people know when it is the right time to hire?

Speaker 1:

Oh, it's really easy, but the unhelpful answer is it's normally about two to three months before you actually hire. It is always way earlier than you actually ever have.

Speaker 2:

Not. When is the right time to hire? How do you know? How do you?

Speaker 1:

know, typically when you're feeling knackered, exhausted, overwhelmed, you haven't got enough time, all kinds of things, and Isn't all that?

Speaker 2:

the stuff that happens when it's time to hire. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I do and I think so sometimes, but sometimes not, because a lot of times what will happen is people might get those feelings but still not maybe be able to afford to hire, or maybe think that they can't afford to hire, and so you know, how do they know when to hire?

Speaker 1:

It's ideally what you want to be doing. It's kind of laying the groundwork so that you, as an example we talk to lots of people about, hey, hiring an assistant to get things off your plate best thing you can do is, from the very start, even way before you're going to hire, start building a little list, start jotting down little ideas and little tasks that you could get some help with, even when it's just the very first thing. And then, as that list builds up, you gain confidence, go oh, hang on, there's enough here to hire someone. Or actually, you've run out of time so much that you can do get more value out of your time by getting some help. So it ultimately comes down to either when you run out of time or when you can't do the thing that needs doing. So it's either a time shortage or a skill shortage.

Speaker 2:

One of the things someone said to me about hiring once was the easiest thing to do to start with, for hiring is all of the stuff that's repetitive and actually quite straightforward, and so it's just like make a list of all of the things you're doing yourself or that someone in your team's doing, or whatever that you could really do with getting off your plate or getting off that more senior team members plate, and then figure out, okay, how much benefit would I get from that? Because even if you're like, okay, I'm gonna hire someone full-time and that's gonna cost me whatever it is, I don't know junior person, like a thousand a month or 1500 a month or something, how much benefit does it have? Because if it saves up enough of your time that you can do more billable work for a client or you can build that next thing, it might actually be worth doing it kind of ahead of when you're knackered and everything's filled up, what's your kind of take on it? Do you actually do that? Like when you're thinking through this, like at a practical level, do you do that? Do you start making a list of here's all the things that I've currently got on my plate that somebody else could do? Or like I know you've got like a decent size team now right, like 10 people or something.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're 13 now, including me.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, I do something called XDS and Dan Martell's got a similar tool in his book by back your time, and the prince of the idea being is that what you do? Is you just make a note, like you said there, what are the things that you're doing, how much time does it take? Does it give you energy or does it take energy away from you, and what would the cost be to delegate it down? And so I do do this, typically very roughly, like about every three months or so, because it's normally a good reminder for me to be like, oh, hang on a minute, I don't actually need to be doing that, I've already got a team member that could do it for me.

Speaker 1:

The thing that's happening literally right now is that I'm realizing more and more that there's things that I'm trying to make myself do I'm just not good at or I just don't enjoy doing, and I've got a lot of resistance to get in help with that, because in my head I'm like, oh, I should be the one that does this and that's not a talk show.

Speaker 1:

So, yeah, I do that exercise of literally just writing down what are the things that I'm doing, and I just do it roughly. Some people will use toggle or a time tracking app to really meticulously track what they're spending their time on. I just do it roughly, just making a note every few hours or every day. What are the things I've done? And then try and think about actually, is it in my zone of genius and could I get some help with it? And because, like you said, the value of our time and the things that we can do when we're really operating at our best is huge, way more than I don't know six, 10, $20 an hour that we can hire some of them.

Speaker 2:

One of the things I found useful for it and I don't know if you've tried this, but like the traction's got their system where they suggest you make they call it an accountability chart, but just like an org chart right, here's everybody who we've got in the team, but their recommendation is do it for everybody who you should have in the team in like six months time or something like that, and then kind of go oh, I can see where we should be, and then you work backwards from that and figure out about hiring. I tell you what, though? A thing that I see with a lot of people is either they're like what if I hire them and then later on I can't afford it, or what if I hire them and they're no good? Or I think a lot of people, especially when they're starting out hiring, are like I hire somebody and then they'll not be able to do it as well as I can. Any thoughts about either of those?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think only they've not been able to do it as well as you can. They may not be able to that may be absolutely true but, to be honest, if they can do it 80% as well as you can, that is generally more than good enough, right? That is absolutely fine, and oftentimes they'll actually do it better than you can because they won't hate doing it. For starters, they may actually be better suited to do it, and we all the time I mean you and me have had this conversation where people will come to us and they'll be like there's no one that's gonna want to do my really dull admin tasks or bookkeeping things like that. And yeah, there is an entire industry of people that really love, you know, methodical, repeated tasks the kind of stuff that you and me hate, so that you can absolutely find people that are way better than you. But even if they're not as good as you especially on day one because it's gonna take them time to build up it doesn't actually matter, because most of the time, just getting the thing done well enough is often good enough and they can then grow to be better. In terms of affordability, I mean, this is one where it's really great to start kind of gently, right.

Speaker 1:

You don't always, you especially, don't need to start hiring someone full time.

Speaker 1:

Start part time could be 10, 15, 20 hours a week, and if you hire from kind of more affordable regions of the world than London or the US or Canada, then it's not actually a huge amount of money. It can be really, really effective and that then reduces the pressure on you. But also a little bit of pressure can be kind of helpful, right. So sometimes if you're like, hey, I know, I've got to pay someone there $800, $1,000, $1,500 a month, it almost makes you not you know kind of waste that time that you're gaining going. Right, how can I get out there and do it? And especially if you I mean I normally say when I'm hiring someone I want to have high, high confidence that I've kind of got like six months of their money in the bank for that particular role on top of all of our payroll. But if I'm going to make an investment, I want to know that I'm good for at least six months, and then you just build it from there and the vast majority of roles will pay for themselves.

Speaker 2:

The first time I use JobRack. I know you know this, but for the sake of everybody listening, I think it would have been 2016. So, before you owned it, you owned your job rack.

Speaker 2:

And there was who is it? Who is it? Matt Newton? I saw him at a conference and I just had hired through JobRack and I had hired someone who was great and I was like I just couldn't believe that. I tell you what originally happens.

Speaker 2:

I saw a post he did on the DC, which is a group that Noel and I both in, and he'd showed the average wages in all different parts of the world and were showing why he was hiring from Eastern Europe.

Speaker 2:

He's like okay, it's got people who are very well educated, got good internet, hardworking, and the average wages are about a third or something at the time I think they were of what they were in the UK and I'd struggled to hire good people in the UK.

Speaker 2:

And so I was like, oh, let me give this a bash, and I hired someone for like $800 a month, something on those kind of lines, and then he's turned out to be like absolutely brilliant and he's still with me today and it just kind of blew my mind and I think that, from a affordability point of view, is a really big deal, right, if you're like oh well, I would struggle to pay someone 2,500 a month for this assistant role, whatever I might think I need, but I don't need to. I can pay somebody junior level, whatever it is, I don't know at the moment 800,000. We normally start people on 1,000 euros a month and it's like, oh, I could do that, I could manage that, and it just changes the whole game. You actually get good people for that amount, rather than I don't know, the UK 2,000. I think you struggle to get somebody good yeah.

Speaker 1:

And that's the key thing, right, it's not about saving money but losing quality, getting worse people. It's about people that are equal or better to the kind of people that we could hire locally but for way less money. And that's the key. I spend a lot of time talking to people and I often joke. It's like once you've had your first hire from Eastern Europe, you will be back to get your second and your third, exactly as you've done with your business and the same with me and the clients we work with, because that first one is like a little dip in your toe in the water, like, are they going to be good, are they not? Is this really? Can we believe the hype and the claims? And then it's just amazing and people just build incredible teams because there's just a different kind of work ethic and cost of living is just lower. So amazing. People don't kind of need high salaries, still pay them fairly, still pay them well, which both of us really do with our teams. But yeah, the opportunity is huge. How do?

Speaker 2:

you think about which roles to hire. First, because there's two really different trains of thought that I've heard about this, and I still feel like there's a lot of unpicking to do in terms of really making the right decision. Because one is you're doing everything. Well then, hire an assistant to take the lowest level tasks off of your plate, and I think there's real validity to that. That's really really strong. But then there's another one that says a really important thing to focus on is find somebody who does a job in your business that you're currently trying to do but would be brilliant at it, like has been doing it for 10 years, is like elite level, and pay them a lot of money, and so that's two very different kinds of hires. How do you think about that when you're making that decision?

Speaker 1:

So the first is like what's going to move the needle the most? What's in the way of you growing your business and doing the things that you want to do? And a lot of the time, especially in the early stage, that is going to be your time. If you, as the business owner, could do more calls or develop more courses or do more marketing, whatever your skill set is, a lot of the time is your time is the limit. So if you can hire a pretty straightforward but really highly skilled team member to take things off your plate, that can really really move the needle. There are times when sometimes you might not have the skills. So let's say, you need to do a whole bunch of marketing work and that's just not your jam. If there's an area that isn't your skills, that you need help with, then that's when you hire for that kind of role. But the problem is, as you said, those kind of A players that have really got 10 years experience doing the thing that you're struggling to do. They are expensive, and they're expensive in terms of both their salary, but also it's quite scary, your first hire being someone who is an assistant that is going to do things that you know how to do and you're going to drain them to take stuff off your plate. It's not that scary, it's quite straightforward. Hiring someone that's like a big hitter that is on a lot of money but it's coming in to do stuff that you don't know how to do, that's quite intimidating. I still find that intimidating because you've got to have enough knowledge to be able to manage them and bring them in, and that's really, really tough. So I don't know of many instances where people do that straight off the bat for their first or second hire.

Speaker 1:

Most commonly, the first hire will be like a really great assistant to take things off your plate so that you can then push on to the next level, and it might be that so that you can then go and learn the thing, so that you can then hire maybe a freelancer or a fractional person to push that other area forwards. Often, then, it depends on the type of business. Is it like an operations manager? Next, is it a fractional marketing person or part-time person? So generally I would say probably at least in 80% of the cases that I see it's an assistant in the early days, someone that's really multi-skilled, can do all kinds of different things. Maybe they're doing social media marketing, things like that as well before getting to that true expert hire, because not only is it expensive, it's also quite scary as well.

Speaker 2:

So, let's say, you've decided you do want to hire. Maybe you've even thought Eastern Europe is the place for me. You can go to jobwreckeu and check it out and you've decided you're going to hire an assistant, just starting point. Maybe it's some other kind of a junior level role for within your course business. So maybe it's a video editor or it's someone to help specifically with stuff around social media or whatever it is you're hiring for right? What's the steps you need to go through to hire? Well, what do people need to be aware of? Just like a high level framework kind of point of view?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So step one, most important step, is to figure out what you actually want them to do. So a lot of people will jump on Google or jump onto chat GPT and get like a job description or a job post for a video editor or an executive assistant and there'll be a very standard vanilla kind of template. You will have seen tons of them. The problem with that is it talks about responsibilities and things like that, but without actually what you want them to do. What are their actual outputs? So if you actually just make a list of, if they've been working with you for the past month, what would they have actually done, that's the best place to start, right, because then you can be super clear about what they're actually gonna deliver. So step one figure out what you actually want them to do, right. That can form a basis for everything else. Step two if you're doing it yourself, if you wanna run the process yourself and find a job board, things like that, then you're gonna need to create a job description, a job post. Again, chat GPT is great for that. You can feed it with those list of things you want them to do and then it can help you there. So create a great job post, and a job post needs to be a sales page, right. So it should look a lot like your sales page for your course. It should have your branding on it. It should maybe have a picture or a video of you on there. Ideally, have some social proof, right. If you don't have team members already, just include some testimonies from your customers. Get people excited about the idea of working for you. So step one figure out what you need. Step two a job post that is a lot like a sales page that is selling the opportunity to work with you.

Speaker 1:

Step three you gotta get some candidates. So you've gotta go to the right place to get the kind of people that you want. So, obviously, jobwrapeu for really great people from Eastern Europe. If you're thinking more in the Philippines, then you've got online jobsph. There's similar sites for Latin America, south Africa or if there's a very specific skill set, you might go to a particular job board or particular place for the kinds of skills that you're looking for and also ask in your network, right. If you can get a referral or a recommendation to someone who might be looking for work, then that can shortcut a lot of this process. So you've gotta find some candidates, get them to apply, and then the big thing in the application process is you wanna make it simple and efficient, so I always recommend using an application form that helps you to fill to people out really, really quickly and then make sure you test them.

Speaker 1:

So, for some really weird reason, the entire hiring and recruitment industry uses interviews as a way of us choosing who to employ, and yet the crazy thing is is you're not hiring someone to be good at interviews. You're hiring someone to do research or build lists of contacts or do video editing, and so what you wanna do is have a test stage, just something that's maybe like a couple of hours of a test. Often, or almost always, we will offer to pay for their time to do their test. Doesn't need to be a huge amount of money, but this is a chance for them to do representative tasks that you need them to do. So if you want someone to do video editing for you, give them some video. Get them to edit the video for you.

Speaker 1:

Cut it down, just make it a couple of hours of work. You really get to see not only how do they do the task, but also how do they communicate with you backwards and forwards as well, which is like hugely, hugely beneficial, so that really lets you see how they perform. Then you're gonna do the normal kind of conventional interview get to know them, dig into what are the things that they want, and then you're gonna reference them, so speaking to a kind of a former employer or someone they worked with, and then finally make that offer. So, figuring out what you want, doing a sales page style job post, go and find some candidates, make sure you test them and make that hiring process as efficient as you can. Do a good job of an interview and getting to know them, always take references and then make them an offer and hopefully find a really great team member.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the test task cross has been massive. We always, always do it, and we do it before the interview stage, just like well, if they didn't do the test task well, why would we bother spending the time to interview them? And it's nearly always a task that we've done or somebody who would be in that role done recently, like it's something that we've actually had to do. So we remember how well we did it and we can look at how well the person and the team do it and compare against that and go well, were they as good as that? Were they nearly as good? Were they miles better? Were they miles worse? And it's like that kind of gives you a way of figuring out who's actually competent at the thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, definitely, and you're not actually looking for them to be necessarily as good as you would be, because they don't have the context, necessarily, they haven't got as much information as you. It's just you're looking to go. Are they on the right lines? And so they show that kind of effort, commitment and actual skill that you think, yeah, actually, you know what, if they'd been onboarded and they were working with us, that would be a good standard.

Speaker 2:

How about this three? So if someone's hiring for the funnel work, so course creators typically have got a few different angles and that's the kind of roles they're going to be doing. They've got actually creating the courses where it's almost definitely going to be them on camera. They might be hiring somebody for helping with curriculum design shout out to Marianna Penya, who we always point people to but a lot of that they're going to be doing themselves. That's going to be on them. There's the traffic side of things. So that's kind of very massively. You know, if they're doing SEO, it's going to be writing articles, doing link building of their hiring agency. They're doing it themselves.

Speaker 2:

What was the kind of process around you writing new articles? It might be YouTube videos, in which case it's hiring video editors, possibly problem with that. It's hiring people for uploading stuff on social media, cutting and editing all the videos. So that's two kind of angles on it, and the last one, the one that we're involved with, is the Funnels and email marketing side of things. So then there is copywriters, designers and Someone for helping out with the tech side of things. Most of those, probably people, aren't going to be hiring Someone full-time, probably even part-time, start with. Do you reckon if someone's I think all of those for our audience If they're not big enough, that they need someone full-time? It's just an upwork kind of a job. Where would you suggest people go?

Speaker 1:

So it depends how much work you've got and how long term it is. So if you've got a project and you want I don't know, let's say you're moving to Active campaign, right, and you want some help setting up it's a one-off project Reasonably defined, then yeah, doing getting kind of a project member of staff or a project person from Upwork can be absolutely great. I think. If you've got an ongoing need, then when I talk about part-time, the ideal is it's at least 10 hours a week because you want it to be significant enough for them. If it's not, and it's just like two, three hours a week, it's just not that significant. They're unlikely to prioritize you. Now, I'm a massive fan of real team members, so, even like part-time. We've got some part-timers on the job rack team who are absolutely amazing and have been with us for a long time, so Doesn't have to be full-time. That's super key. The thing to bear in mind with Upwork is it's a bit like Tinder, right? Maybe?

Speaker 1:

Like this right these days, tinder of their billboards around London, right, is all kind of saying that tinder's about serious relationships. Okay, that wasn't always the case. And Upwork is similar, right, most of the people are on Upwork, are looking for multiple gigs and multiple clients. They're not looking for permanent, long-term work. There are exceptions to that, but when you hire someone from Upwork, you need to have that conversation. Hey, have you come off the apps? Are you just working with me or are you kind of like into working with me for the long term, because you don't want to build your business around someone that you think's a long-term team member when they're looking for a couple of months work Before they're going to take six months off maybe. So it's a lot of. It's just about figuring out what is it that you need? Is it a project? Is it short-term, is it long-term? And then Go into the right place. But even you know Upwork can be the right place, but just asking them those questions and seeing if your motivations align with theirs.

Speaker 2:

All right. So let's say someone's decided they want to hire. They want to hire an assistant like we've talked about. They want to get somebody part-time or full-time. They've got all the steps figured out in terms of what that person's going to be working on. They're working on their job ad for it. They're figuring out a test task. How do they figure out how much to pay them? What is a good wage for different roles? There's kind of assistant role in Eastern Europe and how might that vary depending on the, the flavor of that assistant role? Yeah, so it depends a little bit.

Speaker 1:

The key things is what do you want them to do? So if you want a really good, solid, virtual or, as we normally call it, executive assistant, then we're typically looking about kind of eight to ten dollars an hour, someone really smart, really switched on, with the experience of being an EA and that wants to be an EA. They're not just using it as a stopgap before they go off and do something else. So someone that's kind of kind of you know wants to be your assistant for the for the long term. If you want someone that's maybe a bit more content-oriented, so that you know they're super organized but they're, you know, maybe a bit of video editing, bit of audio editing, things like that, then that might push you up a little bit higher. So that might push you into like maybe nine to eleven, maybe twelve dollars an hour, something like that.

Speaker 1:

We do kind of quite a few of those kind of roles where someone's coming in and, yes, they're doing things for you, but they're also being like your content administrator, so chopping up podcasts, videos, shorts, reels etc and just keeping that machine going, whilst also being really methodical and organized and putting a process around it. We generally don't hire much below about seven dollars an hour now that tends to be the minimum. Costs have increased well everywhere, but especially in Eastern Europe. But that gets you really really kind of good people as you get up into kind of specialities. If you want, like a really great I don't know SEO specialist or paid ads PPC person, that's going to head north up into probably close like fifteen, twenty dollars an hour, something like that. Still very, very affordable. But you know, not the same as just hiring a. You know kind of a kind of get an entry level Kind of a system.

Speaker 2:

So in $10 now, just doing a little bit of back of the inflate math works out as about $1,700 a month.

Speaker 1:

I'd normally say I base it on 160 hours a month, so 40 hours a week, so you're talking about $1,600 a month for a full time amazing executive assistant. That isn't just about inbox and calendar management, is about, like all aspects of your life personal as well. You know their job is to make your life easier and Polly, she's my amazing EA. You know every day she says what can I take off your plate today? And it acts as a prompt for me to delegate, because you know sometimes we're not great at letting go of things and it acts as a prompt for me to think and go oh, hang on a minute, I don't need to be doing this task, and then I can ask for help with it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a good one. Did you get her to give that prompt? Okay, Okay it came.

Speaker 1:

it came from a remit set, the course called delegate and done, and it was a live workshop that he did with his EA and they had a bunch of tips and one of them was that she asks him every day what can I take off your plate? And I instantly I was like, oh, that's good, because I'm the worst for this right. Like I think I'm a good use of Polly, but there's a lot of stuff that she'll catch me doing things. From time to time she'd be like have you been booking your own? We work like kind of like desk bookings and I'll be like busted and sometimes it's just my head on like it's just quicker. It's not just quicker, there's no way. It's quicker than me actually just shooting her a voice note and being like hey, polly, can you put me this, this, this and this and this? And it's just getting in the habit of, you know, not doing these things myself.

Speaker 2:

Nice, what about you? So you used to manage teams in person right when you were. What were you like? Senior? What was your? Old job I used to be a head of IT for a jet or something like that, wasn't?

Speaker 1:

it. I used to do some work with live the airlines are. I was head of IT and operations director and bunch of different stuff for big kind of corporate tech companies.

Speaker 2:

What did you find? What have you seen as the pros and cons of managing a team remotely versus in person?

Speaker 1:

So I mean, my biggest team was 120 people, so it was a big team with lots of levels and hierarchy. In that it can be great. Just the ability to kind of just huddle around a desk to solve a problem can be great. In person there is less, in some senses there's less chance of like miscommunication and misunderstandings in person, but at the same time there's just huge amount of inefficiency for me being in person whether that's people commuting, whether that's people just not being that focused, all the distractions of an office, etc. Whereas for me with remote the as long, there are certain things that we have to be really intentional about, right. So I'm working with my team right now to encourage them to the equivalent of pick up the phone, right. I'm like, hey, don't worry about sending a slack message. If you want to just talk someone, just hit the huddle button, it'll ring as if you're giving them a ring, and so we're trying to kind of break down some of these kind of remote working norms of just sending a slack message or sending an email.

Speaker 1:

The big benefit with remote is generally people are so much happier from a lifestyle perspective. It gives them tons of freedom. They can have the life that they want while still working really hard, building a great career. And we're not about, you know, laptop toting nomads working from the beach right. All of our team have a proper fixed home office type setup, working generally pretty fixed hours, and see it as a real job and a real career. So we kind of I think it's the lifestyle benefit and, as a result, we get access to people of a way higher caliber than if we were just hiring within a commuting distance of you know wherever I happen to put the office. And that's before we get into the costs of things.

Speaker 2:

Alright, if people want to go and check out job rack, what's the website address?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, head to job, rack dot e you. Or feel free to just email me direct, noel, that's no el at job, rack dot e you.

Speaker 2:

And what's the options there? What can people, how many people, use that for helping with hiring?

Speaker 1:

So nice and simply you can post a job ad and kind of run the process yourself. If you feel kind of comfortable and happy doing that, or if you want to save typically like 50 to 60 hours and get kind of real kind of experts working on your behalf, much like John and the team at data driven marketing do, then we've got a full done with you service that we can actually help you and really guarantee really great results.

Speaker 2:

And for those, we always, whenever we're hiring, always post job up on job rack. It's like our main source of leads for people coming in. It's fantastic. Couldn't recommend it more highly. It's where we point all other people in our group coaching program to go and make their own if they are doing full time highs and we've got some people who built up a team like 10 or 15 people, so thoroughly recommend it. Job rack dot e you know. Thanks so much coming on. Really appreciate your time, man.

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