The Art of Selling Online Courses

Using AI and Google Ads to Boost Your Online Course Traffic - with Alex Makarski

September 15, 2023 John Ainsworth Season 1 Episode 104
The Art of Selling Online Courses
Using AI and Google Ads to Boost Your Online Course Traffic - with Alex Makarski
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Ever wondered how Google Ads and artificial intelligence can elevate your online courses? Get ready to navigate through the fascinating intricacies of AI and conversion, guided by expert marketer and former engineer, Alex Makarski. We journey into the world of averages, the transformative power of Google’s multi-channel campaigns, and the indispensable role of machine learning in media buying. It's an exploration of quantifying the value of a lead, testing paid media, and understanding the direction of your business.

By sharing his unique experiences from consulting major brands such as McDonald's, PNG, and Siemens on leveraging big data, Alex divulges valuable insights on how these skills can uplevel your online course traffic. We delve into the significance of training machines to make informed decisions, avoiding low-intent auctions rife with fake traffic, and the importance of building supportive communities. This episode is your masterclass on how to use AI, machine learning, and the math of averages to calculate the value of a lead and optimize revenue. It's time to unleash the untapped potential of your online courses with Alex's actionable advice.

Speaker 1:

The problem is, when we have 10 leads, we don't know which one is going to become revenue. Right, that's the issue. That's why we use this, the math of averages. But the math of averages doesn't work anymore, because if you start firing conversion events for every lead that comes in, you're telling Google hey, google, thanks so much. You may be 200 quid when you got a lead. That lead may be bought. That opt-in could be a fake contact, like a lot of people launch on YouTube, on prongs Max, and like I'm getting all this fake opt-ins. Why are these people opt-in in? They opt-in in because that's how those made for advertising sites make money. You know they hire those click farms to go in and fill out your forms because that sprinkles happy juice into your Google's algorithm and Google notes hey, I got, I can get some easy leads from here. I can keep going in there and just grabbing those easy leads. It can't tell the difference between a bad lead and a good one, so it's your job to tell Google this lead is good, this one lost for much.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the art of selling online courses. We're here to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. My name is John Ainsworth and today's guest is Alex McCasky. Alex is an engineer turned marketer, founder of Clickmakersio and co-founder of Measurebitcom. He's been working with Big Data since before there was even a name for it, consulting for brands like McDonald's, png and Siemens. He's served as CTO or CMO on the executive teams of several technology companies, now certified by AdSkills, google, microsoft, amazon, the trade desk and Stack Adapt.

Speaker 2:

Alex and his team have managed millions of dollars in monthly ads, spent for organizations ranging from open source software to lead gen, from digital products to e-com, and today we're going to be talking about Google ads, whether you should use them, how to use AI to improve your traffic, and about tracking as well.

Speaker 2:

Now, before we dive into today's interview, I want to remind you that you can learn how to two to five times your revenue by going to datadrivenmarketingco. There's a recording of a 45 minute presentation I gave to hundreds of online course creators about the process that we use with our clients to two to five times their revenue. I've had people come up to me at conferences after watching this presentation, who have made tens of thousands of dollars from implementing one of the techniques. So go to datadrivenmarketingco, go to datadisbarmentcoin, petty boom, commit your revenue byems. By then café pf flyby brand into Blaine Prom fun cafe –as much as it is also hitting a small public source career Ridgewел School of ethics at MS educationcom is based in Fort Ford in the US and it shows Linus Grayerson on the top of the list moral music, big Bang.

Speaker 1:

So there's that is going in. But yeah, paid media should be treated with respect because it's not going to solve People sometimes come to us trying to solve their own problem with traffic. Where it's they offer, they should probably come to you first. Have you work on their funnel? Have you helped them improve the unit economics? Before they start handing, take a big shovel and start handing over the big stash of money to Google, facebook or whomever.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's really interesting because I know you're a big fan of Harry Marshall's work and he's got the tactical triangle, which is based on traffic, conversion and economics and most people, a lot of people, try and solve problems through traffic and some people in the organic space are really good at traffic and then they drive tons of traffic and the whole thing even though the rest of their business stinks like. They're just really bad at converting people into email leads, converting email leads into sales. Their revenue per sale is dreadful. Even despite that, they just managed to do it through driving a lot of traffic because they're really good on camera. They do great on YouTube, they build up a big audience on Instagram, whatever it is right.

Speaker 2:

But paid media like it just doesn't work if you don't have the other bits in place. Like maybe, maybe it had done at some points in the past if you were like, you were in an area where the cost per click was really low, but I just don't see it now If you don't have it. Everything gets so much easier when you do have those things working. If your revenue per sale is high, your customer lifetime value is high, people come back, they refer more business to you, you have good conversion rate on your landing page, you have a good conversion rate in your email campaigns, all of that stuff. Then you put paid ads at the front and the whole thing all works great. But when you haven't got all of that, it's like, oh man, that's just throwing good money off to bad. It's not a good idea at all.

Speaker 1:

Well, there's a good argument that would be made for launching paid media as a test to know what's working. Pierre Marshall mentioned above. He has a saying that it's really hard to steer a parked car, so you need some traffic to flow for you to know which direction you're going in. Like a boat that's sitting in the water, you can jerk that here left and right, but it's not going to turn the boat. The boat is just sitting there. So you need some momentum and paid traffic can give you that momentum. But you need to understand the phase in life of your business, of your product.

Speaker 1:

If you're buying the traffic to create this momentum, to understand how to work the economics, the unit economics within your funnel, to test things, to continually improve them, or if you're looking for traffic to actually solve your problems, the traffic is not going to solve your problems. Traffic is going to give you a skin. Traffic is going to be magnifying glass that will expose all the problems you have in the dress, in your funnel. But once things click, it's a beautiful thing. It's just like washing a launch of a rocket. Sometimes, when things click in place, it's just so fun.

Speaker 2:

How often do you see that work with the testing side of things? Because here's what I've seen a bunch of times as people say they want to do over testing, they want to test with paid media, and then they start doing it and then they see the money leaving the bank account month after month while they're trying to figure out all the steps in the funnel and then they stop and they give up with it because it's just too scary. And that's what I actually see versus the hypothesis which is, yeah, you put the money into ads, you keep refining and testing and improving until eventually it gets to the stage where it works and then you start to scale it up. Maybe I'm just not seeing it because I don't know the right people Like does it work like that in practice?

Speaker 1:

It does, it does, but you need to have a bit of a stamina to sustain that period of taking losses and seeing those days when your P&L is going to be in red in the red for a bit. And you need to be measuring your progress by not looking at the PINL but looking at the KPIs that keep improving, that keep moving in the right direction. So, yeah, it's hard and every time you open a new channel, you start this process over. You start losing money for a bit and each new channel you activate, chances are that channel is going to be harder to break into. It's going to require a big stash of money to learn what's working, not specific channel Like.

Speaker 1:

We're kind of creative. We've got audiences If you have it working in one channel. A lot of people come to us when things are already working great on Facebook and they need more things to work. Like, be it YouTube, be it Google search, be it Performance Max, we run across a bunch of channels. We're not one trick pony, we're like Google and that's a jam. We're a premium partner for Google, which puts us in the top 3% of agencies. Whichever way Google measures it, I have no idea we're still small team.

Speaker 1:

But we do get access to some betas that Google releases. We get some help from them, including the use of their office space in Redwood City, so we have somewhat more intimate relationship with them than many other networks. We have a really good relationship with Tabula, like with native ads, for example. We work in an establishing relationships with a lot of other networks. We have seen some decent reps talking to us from Pinterest, for example, so we activate some weird channels for certain clients. Very often we come in and when there's an in-house media buying department that already has a good handle on Google search and usually Facebook, those are usually the first two channels that pretty much everyone conquers. We're amazing at both, like we have media buys that are good at both, but that's not that much of a unique skill anymore. But we're very good at activating channels that an average media buy does know what to do with. We have some really amazing success stories with YouTube and display. We have done some decent spends on native Pinterest, credio, programmatic. We've done a good amount of work with Connect2TV.

Speaker 1:

There's all the interesting new things that we walk into and launch for clients. Right now we're in the process of launching campaigns on LinkedIn and Reddit and Twitter. Some clients are interested in activating those. Some of the guys are so experienced they can transfer their knowledge from channel to channel. Things change all the time. On all those things, it's the foundational holistic view that some people are able to hold in their head and understand how to approach an entirely new channel. We've done some programmatic email, for example. Some of our clients do email drops. Those are very powerful channels that 80% of your listeners probably had no idea existed, but this can be very powerful.

Speaker 2:

Interesting. You mentioned a couple of things I want to pick up on. You said that a lot of people come to you when they've got it working with Facebook and then you help them to get it working with the next channel, whether that is Google or YouTube or Tabooloo or Programmatic email or whatever, is Facebook a good one to start with. For most people, if somebody listening has got organic traffic coming in maybe it's SEO traffic, maybe they've got a YouTube channel how do they decide where to get started if they do want to do some paid media?

Speaker 1:

Facebook is great for someone starting small with tiny daily budget, tiny aspen Maybe it's 100 bucks a day or something like that, Maybe even less. In a lot of cases it's about the only place we can start very, very small. Google sometimes works as well, especially in non-English speaking markets. You can find places where clicks are going to be 25 cents 30 cents. You can still buy enough data with not that much money. But generally Google has become very competitive. There's a very high intent cliques, so there's a lot of advertisers competing for those and that drives up the price for the auction and those cliques. Very often you just being priced out of the market, Like if you don't have a funnel that's already working. Like it may be hard to compete there.

Speaker 1:

If you have some organic presence, if there's a good amount of your branded traffic spilling over from your social media dark social like people just talking about you in forums and discussing you over their dinner table and someone goes up the phone and starts going your name or your brand, you know, that's great you can capture that traffic relatively inexpensively on Google.

Speaker 1:

That's also a good place to start. But you need to understand that this is the very bottom of the marketing funnel. This is the place that I'm about to convert, regardless of what you do, so don't get too excited when you get an amazing conversion rate. This is the easy money to pick up, which you should do absolutely. But I don't expect the economics that you see on that super high intent, super hot traffic to stay the same because you expand across channels, because other traffic sources are not going to perform as great, and you will need to change your approach quite dramatically. Got it Sha Like. When you go to something like Tabool or Nadia Fazz, that's some very, very cold traffic, but you will need to do some pretty amazing job with your landing pages in order to get eke out any action from the traffic that's coming out from Nadia Fazz.

Speaker 2:

Got it. That makes sense, ok. So probably, if you're going to start somewhere with this, start with Facebook, because you can do a low amount of money per day, but really start a stage before with making sure you've got a good customer lifetime value, good average order value, good conversion rates on your landing page, et cetera and then maybe add in Facebook ads and then, once you start to get that working more, then you can start to expand out to other media, at which point maybe someone will get in touch with you.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I would say Facebook and a combination of Facebook and Google search is probably where most people should start. Again, with a caveat that in some niches that we've seen clicks to become so expensive that it would be paying 150 bucks per click and sometimes 400 bucks a click. Again, most of the audience would not be in that territory, so most of the listeners here would be a few dollars per click and those are very high intent. Click should be relatively easy to convert. So there's no point in not getting the traffic because those are conversions. What needs to happen, that's latent intent that you just tap into and just make more cash.

Speaker 2:

All right, so let's talk a little bit more about if someone's a bit further along than that. Someone's already doing paid media. They're already making progress with it, but they want to start to up their skills with it Now. Ai is obviously a hot topic at the moment, and I know that AI is something that you've done some work around as well, with all the stuff you're doing in the agency. Can you tell everybody what doggy training is for AI?

Speaker 1:

Yes. So whenever someone talks about the AI these days, they usually mean things like child, gpt and mid-journey like always generate to AI, which offers a lot of value to any marketing department or any marketing organization. We use it a lot, but this is not where we're going to go today, I think, based on your question. So the AI, or rather machine learning, that I want to talk about a little bit more is the type of machine learning that makes decisions on that behalf inside the auction, which is an ad impression. So each ad impression creates an instant, real time auction where advertisers do get out and when machine decides whose ads are admitted into the auction and which ad gets to be shown in a specific spot. So that happens across a bunch of networks. But there's a very important wrinkle on this process that is relatively new, that a lot of people don't quite understand yet. This wrinkle has to do with the fact that a lot of networks are becoming multi-channel. So in Google we have this campaign type called Performance Max. Performance Max campaigns can go across search, shopping, display, video, basically native ads, which is Google Discovery, gmail, like everywhere that Google has access to. This campaign has a chance to buy some inventory for us, and that is a very important development. This is just makes your campaigns add another dimension to your campaigns, which didn't exist before. So in the past I could just manage search as search and I would be confident that most of my traffic's coming from just regular Google search results, whereas now, when I launch Performance Max, this impression can come from anywhere from high intent, high to win very expensive search auction versus low intent, super cold, very cheap impression on a display network. So Performance Max is one type of a good example of a multi-channel campaign that is multi-channel by its very design, but it's not limited to just that campaign type YouTube these days, any type of conversion objective that you run on YouTube, like Target, cpa, target Pro that becomes a multi-channel campaign as well. About two years ago it was going to be two years in October when Google made a very important change in the algorithm.

Speaker 1:

And now, when you think you're launching an ad that is, you know that annoying ad that you get to see on YouTube when you're trying to watch a video and there's another video comes up that plays before the video you want to watch or in the middle. Well, that we used to be able to buy. Just that we used to be able to upload a clip to our channel and launch it as an ad and say, hey, youtube, this is the kind of inventory I want to buy. I want to have my video interrupt someone else's video and I want them to watch that. Now it becomes more like performance max. It can be that it's going to be a little bit of that.

Speaker 1:

There's going to be also some display ads in the user's YouTube feed. So when we do research on YouTube, we just open YouTube. There's going to be some banners, there's going to be thumbnails for videos and there's going to be a thumbnail for your video as well. Like it's not a video, it's a thumbnail, so it's displayed out. Basically, it can also buy some inventory on the display network. Someone could be on, like forbscom, reading an article and there's going to be a video in the corner somewhere or in the middle of the article, or it could be a banner.

Speaker 1:

So YouTube is now able to buy inventory from budgeted from places as an extra dimension to the campaign. We already had a bunch of dimensions. Now there's an extra one to deal with and that changes the nature of media buying in a very dramatic sense. It's like the doggie treat thing that you asked me about it becomes driven. So now we're delegating the job that we used to do as media buyers, which is deciding which auctions to enter, how much to bid in this auction. We're delegating this job to the machine. And even the job of deciding which network we're going to spend money on, like video, display, email, all that stuff goes again to the machine.

Speaker 1:

The machine has to make the decision inside the auction on our behalf when we're not around, and the machine is better equipped to make this decision generally because the machine has access to literally thousands of signals that we, as media buyers, sit at a desk in front of the screen. We don't have access to these signals because we're not there in those milliseconds when the decision is made. Like me, alex McCorskey, sitting in front of my computer as a user, I represent a different value to the auction as the same person me. So demographically, psychographically, you know I'm the same person, but I'm standing in line to pay for gas, you know, just over course, rays checking some news on my phone, that's a very different context. Like for the same user, represents a very different auction right, and the machine is able to adjust those decisions and make those decisions in split seconds, in literally milliseconds.

Speaker 1:

So in order for the machine to do good decisions, we need to train it. We call it artificial intelligence and the training of that intelligence is very similar to training other types of intelligence we're familiar with, like a dog, right. So we had the puppy three years ago. He's three years old now, running around and I remember going through this training and making sure that he doesn't make a pile in the carpet in the middle of the living room. You know, you want him to go outside, not right here. It's easier to go right here. It's right here in the house. It's comfortable, right, there's no brain or hail storm. It's right here in the house, right. But we want him to go outside. So same with the machine. Like we don't want the machine to shy away from going into hard to win high intent auctions, because these are high quality clicks that we're going to win. It's way easier for the machine to go into low intent, like super cold, button-fisted click, farm-infested auctions, and grab us a bunch of fake traffic.

Speaker 1:

So it's all about training the machine, basically explaining to the algorithm what's important to us, like what we value the most in our business and when you optimize for revenue? Like a lot of those questions go away. We have a client who essentially decided, instead of collecting free leads in their market, they decided to sell a low fee product. So they have a $5 or $7 offer as a frontend. They don't even collect leads at all. But a lot of businesses you have to collect leads and then the question becomes let's say you have an offer, let's say it's 2000 pounds and you have any tendlies to get one order, what's the value of the lead? Like everyone's going to say, well, let's turn it quid.

Speaker 1:

That used to be a good enough answer, like back in the 20th century when we did direct mail, tv ads, newspaper ads and we could launch a campaign, keep the parameters intact. The parameters would not change as the campaign is running. We'll get the data, we'd analyze it, adjust it, pre-launch the campaign. We don't have this opportunity to stop and think and adjust anymore. It happens instantly within the machine. The only correct answer to this question and it has always been is that there's one lead worth 2000 pounds and nine leads worth exactly zero. Like we need to remember this truth, like the kernel of this truth. The problem is, when we have 10 leads, we don't know which one is going to become revenue. That's the issue. That's why we use this, the math of averages. But the math of averages doesn't work anymore Because if you start firing conversion events for every lead that comes in, you're telling Google hey, google, thanks so much, you may be 200 quid when you got a lead.

Speaker 1:

That lead may be a bot. That opt-in could be a fake contact, like a lot of people launch on YouTube, on phones Max, I'm getting all this fake opt-ins. Why are these people opt-in in? They opt-in in because that's how those made for advertising sites make money. They hire those click farms to go in and fill out your forms because that sprinkles happy juice into your Google's algorithm. And Google notes hey, I can get some easy leads from here. I can keep going there and just grabbing those easy leads.

Speaker 1:

It can't tell the difference between a bad lead and a good one. So it's your job to tell Google this lead is good, this one not so much. We may not be able to say with 100% certainty that this lead is worth 2,000 pounds, but we may say this one's worth 750 and this one's worth maybe 7 pounds and this one is 58 or something like that, probabilistically. Or we can be able to disqualify a bunch of them immediately, because we immediately see that those are fake email addresses and names. Like very often, you can just immediately discard a whole bunch of garbage. So the trick is to delay the firing of your conversion events until you have a little bit more information and more information come from several places. If you have a sales team, your sales team can qualify those leads. So you can just delay the firing of the event until your SDR, your salesperson, whoever your VA has a chance to review the lead and verify that this is a real person.

Speaker 1:

You can kick off an API call and get some extra data from companies like Ad2Data, formerly known as Tower Data. We work with several other data providers as well, company called Thumos and CrystalLytics. You can kick off a simple API call and get back a bunch more columns to this data set. So maybe you're just getting the email address right now, but all of a sudden, for like a few cents, you can get information like the social media handles and you can go on those and verify that this is a real person, that they do have an interest in your topic.

Speaker 1:

This is not a random email being thrown in by a spammer into your funnel. You can sometimes get things like do they own a home or do the rent? How much mortgage do they carry? That kind of stuff, so you can actually add more data to your data set, add more columns to your data set to make a more informed decision about the value of this lead to your business. And then, instead of just firing a conversion event and saying, google, thank you for the 200 pounds you made me, you could say well, google looks like it probably made me 120 pounds right now, or this one, yeah, maybe 25. And all of a sudden, your Legion becomes more like Econ. It becomes more like instead of running on target CPA, you can run your Legion on target rovers scenario. Well, that sounds like some smart shit.

Speaker 2:

Fucking hell Okay.

Speaker 1:

Well, to simplify it, let's say, to explain, this is not like we do it voluntarily. This is where networks are pushing us. This is the new reality we have to contend with. I'm not saying that this is a good idea, that hey do, this is going to be better. I'm saying this is a remedy to a problem that we have to deal with as media buyers, because we just don't have a way to scale our campaigns any other way. This is the only way forward that networks are giving us. Right, we need to learn how to work with these tools. And going back to the dog metaphor, let's say you have a dog that likes to chase after bicycles. You have two options in real life. Right, you can walk this dog on the short leash. That's one way. Or you can train this dog not to chase after bicycles, and what's happening right now in the minibind world is that we have the dog and they take the leash away. So if you didn't train your dog, it's going to chase you out of the bicycles, got it? Yeah, fascinating, all right.

Speaker 2:

Let's take a different angle from it here, in terms of how people can improve their business. I want to talk about the importance of the new technology. I want to talk about the importance of supportive communities. So we're both in a group called the DC Dynamite Circle. If anybody wants to look it up, I think it's probably dynamitescirclecom. How have you found that helpful and what's been useful for you about that?

Speaker 1:

I think it's been an amazing community of people who are in the same way of lengths. Everyone's building something interesting, Like some people are buying, selling businesses, Some people just starting out and looking for the traction. Some people are scaling their businesses. Like you and I are slightly more advanced tier of that group and I felt pretty smart walking into that group and like hey, I made it. And then I spoke with some guys in there and like holy crap, they're still further along with me.

Speaker 2:

Humbling, isn't it? It's good.

Speaker 1:

Just going to get humbled. Yeah yeah, yeah, they've built some massive businesses and I'm like holy crap, but it just shows you what's possible, right, it's just hanging around in the circle of people who have further along is very important, but also having a bunch of people who call friends, who are working on something really interesting. I don't have a circle around me locally that I can tap into. I do have some of it, but not to the same degree that you get through DynamoCircle. It's just when you are an entrepreneur and this is your outlet to be creative in the world out there. Right, you just want to hang out with other people who are doing something as cool or even cooler.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's a great group. I joined back in 2016, something like that. It's been absolutely integral for me, because there's just so much stuff that you head down in your business trying to do things. You don't realize what all of the options are, what all the things other people are doing. When you talk to people, you're like, oh, there's this and this and this and this angle that I didn't even consider. I didn't even know that, I didn't know it. And then there's the whole emotional support side of things of like you're all doing hard shit at the same time and you all get it. I go out sometimes with my non-business friends and I'm like I just can't talk about, like, oh, I had this great win, this thing's working really well, and nobody wants to hear it. And then if I talk about the shit that's difficult, they don't understand what the fuck I'm talking about. Anyway, I'm just like you need other people who are running businesses to be able to bounce some of this stuff off.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, people outside of our circles. They just have no grid to understand what we're talking about and what we're living through. The kind of stuff we're going through Our lives are a mystery to them. Some of them think they're easy. Some of them think we're crazy. But there's just no way for them to. There's no way to have an educated conversation with them about it. There's no way to get deep with them, right? They just can't relate. Yeah, totally. So that's why community like this is very important. There are a few of them out there. I've been in several and Dynamite Circle is top the pile for sure.

Speaker 2:

If you're interested in joining the DC, then go to dynamitecirclecom. If you're in London and you want to come check out one of the meetups we do meetups every month. Or if you're in the UK anywhere and you want to come down and hang out with us hit me up.

Speaker 1:

I'm not in the UK, but I'm sure that I tend to.

Speaker 2:

You made it over. Yeah, so we do these monthly meetups, though, and you're welcome to If you're doing six figures already. If you're a course business owner and you're doing six figures, then hit me, drop me an email, john at datadrivenmarketingco, and you're welcome to come down and join up with us. I'll introduce you to the group and to everybody and make sure you feel really welcome, and you can do that without having to join first and just check that you vibe with everybody. But, yeah, if you're anywhere in the world, there's these monthly meetups, there's these events. I ran the one with my friends, noel and Shona in London in July this year, and Alex came along, which was great. We had 100 of us hanging out. It was fucking brilliant. So thanks so much, alex, for coming on today and sharing your wisdom. If people want to learn more about working with you guys around ads, what should they do? They just drop you an email.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so, alex, at clickmakersio, it's the Ionacom, let's click makers. Yeah, I'll reply and we'll have a conversation. But certainly back to your question how does someone know if they're ready to start scaling? Yeah, ways to invite someone like one of us to review their finals and their products and analyze their numbers.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a great standpoint, isn't it? You guys do an audit, don't you? It's like your first offering for people to figure it out.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we charge small fee for that, but we do go pretty deep into all the numbers and make sure that, like, if you're about to start spending on traffic, we make sure that you're ready for that.

Speaker 2:

Perfect, nice. So if you want that, if you want to get an audit done, you want to just get in touch with Alex to find out. If this is right for you, then Alex at clickmakersio, did I get that right?

Speaker 1:

You got it.

Speaker 2:

Alex at clickmakersio perfect. Thanks so much for listening, guys, and, like I said, if you're in London or the UK and you're interested in coming and hanging out with us, then drop me an email, john at datadrivenmarketingco, and if you found the interview useful, you want to get future episodes? Subscribe whatever you listened. Thanks so much for coming on, alex, and thanks so much to you guys for listening.

Speaker 1:

Thanks for having me.

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