The Art of Selling Online Courses

$600,000 Evergreen Webinar Funnel Secret - with Abi Prendergast

• John Ainsworth • Season 1 • Episode 141

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Welcome to "The Art of Selling Online Courses" podcast! Today's guest is Abi Prendergast anther of "Day #1 Evergreen."

Abi Prendergast is a renowned evergreen funnel strategist and conversion copywriter, working with some of the leading figures in the course industry. She developed and authored "Day #1 Evergreen," a book that shares its name with her innovative funnel system.

Her signature funnel includes an automated feedback loop designed for straightforward, customer-centric optimization, which consistently enhances conversions each month.

Abi's Website: www.aptcontent.co.uk
Abi's Instagram: www.instagram.com/aptcontent

If you're interested in growing your online course sales and funnel optimisation contact us at https://datadrivenmarketing.co/

Check out our YouTube channel for more tips, techniques, and hacks:    / @theartofsellingonlinecourses  

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to the Art of Selling Online Courses. We are here to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. My name is Monica Abadiu, I am the copy chief for data-driven marketing and today I am talking to a fellow conversion copywriter, Abby Rendergast. Now I'm super excited because she's an Evergreen funnel strategist and conversion copywriter and she's helped some of the biggest names in the course industry. She's the creator of Day One Evergreen and author of the book of the same name. Her signature funnel contains an automated feedback loop for simple, customer-focused optimization, resulting in better conversions every month. She's helped one client launch a new $797 course through a webinar funnel to a list of 10,000 people and made $600,000. So today we're going to talk about some pro hacks to improve your webinar funnel so it converts better without alienating or fear-mongering your audience.

Speaker 1:

And before we dig into today's super exciting interview, I wanted to remind you of how much your support means to us. We're here to make your podcast experience even better and you can help us with just a quick favor by taking a moment to rate and review our podcast. You're giving us priceless feedback that helps shape future episodes. So has this show helped you make money? Has it helped you grow your business or improve your courses? If it has, please share it in the reviews. So go to ratethispodcastcom. Slash onlinecourses, and nothing would make me happier today than to hear how this show has helped you. Okay, let's go to the show. Abby, welcome, I'm so happy you're here and I'm so excited for what's about to come.

Speaker 2:

Hi Monica. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure to be here.

Speaker 1:

I'm super excited. It's going to be an awesome, awesome podcast episode, so let's get the ball running. What are the biggest mistakes you've seen course creators make when it comes to using webinars as a sales strategy?

Speaker 2:

okay, great question. So I think the number one mistake I see is not having a limited time offer. So, even when it's evergreen, you need to make an offer to your audience. You need to give them a reason to act now versus six months from now, and that doesn't have to be like a fake countdown timer. You know the ones where, if you refresh, you come back, it magically restarts. I'm not talking about, um, fake urgency, but you do need to create a limited time offer where you're giving them a set window to take you up on the best deal.

Speaker 2:

Um, and equally interestingly, so I wasn't going to go here, but I'm going to go here. You don't want to do too much urgency. So I think one of the other mistakes people make is they they do like a webinar and there's it's limited time offer, but then there's fast action discounts. You have 24 hours to get this, and then you have early bird bonuses and there's fast action discounts. You have 24 hours to get this, and then you have early bird bonuses and there's just so much urgency.

Speaker 2:

It gets a bit intense and I had a client that was doing this. We removed all that and we just had a limited time offer where I was just like, okay, this is the course, you've got seven days to decide. Here's the deal and conversion rates actually increased by removing some of the urgency deal and conversion rates actually increase by removing some of the urgency. So yeah, so my round about we're saying not having a time offer or having too much urgency, that it's actually a bit intense for your audience so when you say a limited time offer, that isn't like super based on urgency, can you give me an example of what that actually looks like?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean. So there does need to be some urgency. Like, unfortunately, urgency is just a very powerful motivator. I mean, in our everyday lives it motivates us. You know, if you've got two minutes to catch a train, you're going to walk a lot faster than if you've got an hour. So you do need some urgency. But it's just giving your audience a reasonable amount of time to decide.

Speaker 2:

Like if you, if you've got an evergreen webinar and it's a two thousand dollar course you're selling, I think having them, giving them 30 minutes to decide on the webinar or they lose the best deal, I mean I I take no good to make decisions like that.

Speaker 2:

You're not giving them enough time to actually weigh it up. So giving them a good seven day window to read your emails, read through the offer, make a decision and then when the doors close, when the offer ends, they lose that deal, and that has to be genuine. So it really truly is a limited, one time offer and there are tools that can allow you to do that, like Deadline Funnel, for example. So when they sign up for your webinar, it triggers that offer and then, when it expires, it redirects them to the sales page at the full price or without your bonus stack, whatever limited offer you're doing, and then if they do re-sign up your webinar, they don't get it again like it's truly one time and and you're being honest about that, upfront about that and, yeah, giving them the chance- to grab that deal.

Speaker 1:

I'm so happy you mentioned that, because I think a lot of people they focus on okay, how do I get this webinar to convert while people? People are watching the webinar and they don't really put that much focus on what happens after the webinar, like the follow-up emails, and that makes so much sense, right, because usually webinars are used for higher ticket offers and it makes perfect sense. Like, 30 minutes to decide on something pricey isn't enough. I think what we, what we've seen our clients do and what we recommend them, is to like try to have like at least three to seven days of following up with the audience, and we do like recommend like segmenting based on where they have left in the webinar and what they have seen in the webinar and then adapt that email strategy to bring them back into the webinar or to consider the offer. I really like that Nice.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think the follow up is super important. I mean, it takes me longer than 30 minutes to decide what I'm having for dinner. So it takes more than half an hour to decide if I'm going to invest in a course.

Speaker 1:

Smart. Okay, so when you look at the client's webinar funnel, what do you go after? Like the first thing, you're going to optimize what's the lowest hanging fruit.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so the lowest hanging fruit for specifically the webinar we talking about, yeah, yeah, so I would. I mean the. The two metrics I would be looking at would be conversion rates and also how much time people are spending on the webinar. And so if people are dropping off in the first 10 minutes, what I would do is make sure that I've got a super juicy, actual tip that they're going to get in the first 10 minutes and I would promote that on the on the opt-in page for that. So you say, like, in the first 10 minutes, you'll learn how to do X, something that they really want, cause if you can get them to stick around for the first 10 minutes, they're more likely to stick around for longer. Them to stick around for the first 10 minutes, they're more likely to to stick around for longer. Um, and then the pitch.

Speaker 2:

I mean the pitch is, even though we want to give people time to, to decide that if you, if you do a super value-packed webinar, you're going to have their attention, they're going to want to reciprocate by giving you their attention when you, when you pitch the offer. So actually making sure that you're not rushing through the pitch and you're looking at every feature of your course and you're mapping it onto what's actually going on in your audience's life. So, rather than just saying like, oh, here's 30 instagram templates, actually saying okay, so you know, you're waking up every day to post on instagram. It's stressful, it's eating into your client time or whatever. Um, so here's, this is, this is how it's going to help you. So it's very clear the dots connected for your audience, how your course fits into the life, how it's going to benefit them and actually, yeah, make their life easier, better, richer, whatever that outcome is that you're promising so do you have a specific go-to structure for these webinars?

Speaker 1:

because I know a lot of people are doing like the russell, brunson, teach and pitch type of webinar and then you have a longer version of the type of like three secrets, and then it takes one hour and a half, two hours, whatever. So is there like a sweet spot or is there any way to kind of say, okay, at this stage of the promotion or for this specific segment, we're gonna use pitch and pitch and maybe a lower end offer and for this bigger audience or this specific I know, maybe a new launch or something like that, we're going to go with the longer structure um, yeah, I mean, for me the sweet spot has been 40 minutes to an hour for my clients and that will be three, three lessons.

Speaker 2:

But rather than just doing how to's, the focus really being on facilitating mindset shift, so mapping out the path from where they are where they want to be, and then kind of putting these belief packets into the webinar. So it's like, okay, what do they not believe now about themselves, about me, about the industry? Um, that's stopping them from achieving the goal they want. And then what? What do they need to believe? Popping that in the webinar? So, achieving the goal they want? And then what? What do they need to believe? Popping that in the webinar? So by the end, they're kind of, I guess, a fundamentally different person to they are. When they enter the webinar and they're leaving, not only have they got value, but they now believe all the things to be true that make them a perfect fit customer, versus before, where they might be skeptical. Um, that what you skeptical, that the promise that you're making can even work for them.

Speaker 1:

Nice. So what's the process for choosing the topic of the webinar you mentioned? You have this shifting belief, and you have to know what kind of beliefs they have that are preventing them from making the step towards buying your course and achieving the final outcome. So how do you get to that information?

Speaker 2:

so custom customer research um, some of my favorite methods are customer interviews, obviously. Um, actually, if you're speaking to your, your customers, um, on a Zoom call and really getting to know what they want, what's holding them back. And then also Facebook group mining. I'm a big fan of going into the forums, the groups, where they complain about the problems they're having. They go in moments of frustration and say what's driving them up the wall and then using that to craft the webinar.

Speaker 2:

And then what I'll tend to do is I will draft quite a few titles and I'll go through and I'll be like, okay, is this compelling, is this mouthwatering, is this what my audience wants? And then I'll cross them out and then I'll try and get it to about four. And then what I like to do is actually to get my list to vote on it. So just email them and say, look, thinking of doing a webinar. These are the four titles. Click the one that you you would be most interested in, and then you can very easily, on whatever email platforms we were using, see which link got the highest clicks. And then there you go, you've got your title.

Speaker 1:

That's cool and do you do any I don't know testing of the webinar with a smaller sample, like a small segment of maybe like super high engaged email subscribers and you just run it and see what happens. Like do you do that?

Speaker 2:

No, I kind of try and research, validate as much as possible beforehand. So I feel good about putting the webinar out there and then, yeah, then seeing how it performs with, with the live or on demand, and then optimizing based on that quantity feedback rather than, yeah, doing kind of adding that extra webinar to the to the plate, because my course, grade is like kind of where they're at is they've had enough of live launching really cool.

Speaker 1:

Well, that begs the question um evergreen or live. Which is better, oh?

Speaker 2:

I mean um, both hybrid, I think. I mean like I can't deny that there are course creators getting amazing results with live launching. Personally, I think it's a lot of pressure to put on yourself. So if you're a course creator and you're launching once a year and you want to make your annual income in that one launch, I mean that's very stressful. And I think what I'm seeing is course creators will do that.

Speaker 2:

Sometimes they hit their goals, but they're going to be really burnt out after from getting that live launch together, or maybe they don't hit their goals and then they actually have to wait another six months a year to optimize and to try again, by which time all the feedback they collected might no longer be relevant or valuable, because the world, as we know, is constantly changing, um. So that's that's why I love evergreen, because it's not. It's not just about the passive income, obviously, although you know we all, we all like that idea of like waking up to some money, but actually having the opportunity to basically be testing your webinar every single day and testing your emails and testing your funnel, and then you got this up-to-date, fresh feedback and data that you can use to optimize your funnel so you can continue to get better conversions and make sales every day.

Speaker 1:

You mentioned, like, the holy grail of marketing split testing and optimizing. So what are specific benchmarks you're following? Like, how do you know which part are you going to optimize? Is it maybe how many people register to the webinar on a daily basis, weekly basis? How many people do actually show up? Like, how do you decide which bottleneck you're going to focus on first?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a good question. So I mean, the key metrics to look at are cost per lead, if you're running ads, and then the opt-in rates for the webinar, then, yeah, watch rates, sales page conversion rate and then your email open rates and click-throughs. So in terms of what to what to optimize, I mean I have I have an idea of what the industry benchmarks are, but I think it's you know what what's most helpful is the control. So, rather than optimizing, because so and so gets 60 opt-in rates, it's like okay, what did we get last month and how can we beat that? So for the first couple of months I will look at if there's something that's obviously low, like if we're only getting like 23% opt-in rates, then I would start there. But then from that point I would go by the control rather than a benchmark.

Speaker 1:

Well, that reduces some of the pressure.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think people compare, they feel really bad because they're not making all these sales like Amy Porterfield or Pat Flynn or whoever. And it's like, well, these people have been doing it for years, they've got this big audience, they have entire marketing teams supporting them. So, yeah, just focus on being better than your last month done.

Speaker 1:

That actually makes me wonder about this, and I've seen this with lots, of course, creators. So you say, okay, lots of people like amy porterfield, marie forleo and all these people have huge social reputation, visibility, social proof, everything you want. So I assume when they do run a webinar and they do sell whether it's evergreen or live the friction and the resistance of the viewer is a lot less than someone new coming through them with a paid ad or something like that and they see them on facebook or on instagram. They click. It's the first time. Maybe they're actually interacting with that um, with that creator. Do you have any word of advice for someone who's thinking about doing this and they don't have the huge visibility of someone like amyfield?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, okay. So I think I think in that situation because I I think the common advice I hear is like you've got a live launch. You've got a live launch X amount of times before you go on demand. But actually I'm gonna be a bit controversial here and I think when you're a newer course creator, it's actually really handy to go on demand, because when Amy Porterfield does a live webinar, like everyone shows up and like all the like course marketing experts show up as well.

Speaker 2:

It's this big event, whereas for most people like most of the time I don't when I've signed up for a live webinar, like I forget, something else comes up, and that's the experience for a most of the time I don't. When I've signed up for a live webinar, like I forget, something else comes up, and that's the experience for a lot of the people I speak to as well. So by going live, by having that set date, you're kind of adding actually a bit of friction, whereas if it's on demand and people can watch it straight away, they're actually going to engage with you and I mean with the webinars they're actually seeing you. They're building that note, you're building that know, like and trust factor, and when people can see your face. Yeah, they're gonna. You're no longer just a stranger online and they can get more fulfilled for you what you're about, um. So what was the original question? Again, I've got up on a tangent, monica.

Speaker 1:

I'm so sorry so what can I do as a course creator who doesn't have the visibility? And the recognition of someone like Amy Porterfield. What can I do in that webinar to reduce friction and to get the viewer to click and eventually enroll in my course?

Speaker 2:

Okay, there we go, yeah, so show up on video and be yourself and then testimonials. You do need social proof. If you don't have loads, do a beta test. Just get that social proof. Reduce that friction, um, and get people into your webinar. Other ways, like speak on podcasts and write blog posts for other people's audiences, because then you're it doesn't matter if you don't have that trust. Yet you're kind of borrowing someone the trust that someone else has built, um and again, that's why another reason for going evergreen because you someone could listen to your podcast episode from two years ago and enroll in your webinar from it and then convert because they liked what you said in the episode, which is actually how I sell most of my own courses so how like should I be up front about my webinar being evergreen, like in demand, or should I promote it as like?

Speaker 2:

oh, yeah, definitely be up front about demand. So this is one of my my big pet peeves, as anyone who follows me on LinkedIn will know, is when people pretend that their webinar is live. I just think what a bad way to start a relationship with someone, like when someone's joined your world and they're about to get sales emails from you potentially buy from you, be in your course, learn from you. Why start that relationship with a lie course, learn from you. Why start that relationship with a lie it? It makes no sense to me. So 100% be upfront and people appreciate it. I mean I, yeah.

Speaker 2:

I ran a poll on LinkedIn this week and I think we maybe 60 responses and of those, 80% of people said I prefer to watch webinars on demand. We're in this instant gratification era where we don't wait till the weekend for to watch films when they're showing at nine o'clock. We've got Netflix, we've got Amazon Prime, so I think this is this is the way that people like to consume. So, yeah, there's no need to pretend it's live. You don't need to add that extra kind of urgency, that extra pressure. Just be upfront about it. You're giving them what they want when they want it, and your watch rate should be higher. I think e-webinar did a case study. It was something like 65% shot rates for on demand, 40% for live.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, there's no need to start that relationship with a lie and I very strongly recommend against it this is good, because I think there's a lot of false beliefs about what you have to do when you're using a webinar to sell your course, and one of them it's like this you have to present it as live, because if it's live, then the people are going to show up for the opportunity to you know, engage live with you and you have the chat tactic. Engage live with you and you have the chat tactic. So, hey, drop a yes in the chat if you agree to this, and then you see the recorded chat comments. It kind of creates the idea that, well, I can engage with this.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think there are other ways to build that engagement into the Evergreen webinar funnel, and I think a big one is just really knowing your audience, like collecting all that voice of customers.

Speaker 2:

So when you're speaking to them on this on demand webinar, they actually feel like you are sat at a bar with them, sat across from them, sharing this to. You're speaking their language, you're referencing the shows that they watch you're talking about exactly like what's going on in their life and they think they feel like it's this one-to-one conversation. They forget that it's on demand. Well, um, to an extent. And then building opportunities for them to engage actually in your every webinar funnel. I think, especially like before you get to ten thousand dollars a month in core sales, having, instead of of just, you know, the generic FAQ email, actually having a Q&A session where you say, look, I'm around to answer your questions, hit me up with them. I'm giving your audience the opportunity to engage with you. So, yeah, they're still getting that chance, they're still getting access to you. It's just you don't have to constantly burn yourself out by going live.

Speaker 1:

So when would someone see that evergreen webinar? It's like I'm I'm a new lead and I go to your website. I or I see that ad and I click and I see it. That's for new leads. How about people who are on the list for some time and they haven't bought that specific course? Do you have a recommended you know timeframe?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, this is a good question. So I would say, give it at least six months before you re-invite them to the webinar funnel, my reason being I mean, I'm signed up to there's a specific course creator that does every webinars and I just get the exact same emails like from her every three months and I'm like not this again, um. So I would just say, like every six months, re-invite them and just switch up your subject line, switch up the gifts in your emails. Optimize it like do do a seasonal update. You know, if you, if you launched um, say launched, but um, it started promoting your webinar in january and you've got language like you know, snuggle up with a cup of cocoa and watch this webinar, switch that out in summer. So you're saying you know, grab an ice cold kombucha or whatever people are drinking in summer. Um, because then it's showing your audience as well that it's up to date. Because, even though evergreen is awesome, you don't want it to feel stale. So you want them to know it's on demand, it's evergreen, but you don't want them to feel like, okay, this is content from two years ago. Therefore, the course is going to be from two years ago and especially if it's a marketing course. It was for entrepreneurs, then that's critical, because no one wants to know Instagram tactics from like 2022.

Speaker 2:

So, yes, to loop back around to your question, gosh, I am going off on tangents today. Yeah, every six months, re-invite them in and just do a refresh of your final doesn't need to be a lengthy one, just, you know, spend an afternoon just going in tweaking those making those seasonal changes and then also be re-engage your audience within those six months. So one thing I I talk about in my book is having a nine-word email where every 30 days, you basically just ask use the nine-word email. I can't remember who coined the tactic, but it's pretty popular but just saying like, are you still interested in x or are you still struggling with this? Just to get that conversation going. Um, because, yeah, that's an opportunity then to to potentially just like, have a candid conversation and get them, giving them the opportunity again to go into your course yeah, uh, I, I've tested that nine word uh email.

Speaker 1:

Uh, what we do is usually a longer series of re-engagement emails, so we have like four. For some of our clients. We do it twice a year like a full re-engagement campaign. We definitely do one like one month or two months before Black Friday, because that's like the biggest time of the year to well, you want to make sure that you're actually landing the inbox rather than the spam and we have those four emails and then a nurture sequence that goes to the people who re-engaged from those emails. So another four emails and then a delay until they actually see some sales sequence or whatever. So, like every six months. How do you feel about using webinars in like at the end of a welcome sequence? I feel great about?

Speaker 2:

it. I mean I, I think if you've got a course for less than 1500, just run your ads, run, lead straight to the webinar and your welcome sequence is then a sales sequence. I mean you, you would have seen this like the the open rates for your welcome sequence are going to be higher than anything else you'll see at any other point, because people are mutual world, they're curious. You've just given them something. It's a seducible moment, so take advantage of that and sell um, not everything, not everyone needs a big, a big warm-up, especially if it is like a 500 course. And if you do have other lead magnets and bringing people into your world, just get, get people into your, your webinar sequence, invite them um, don't delay giving them the opportunity to buy from you interesting um.

Speaker 1:

Have you noticed any affinity by industry like? Is there a specific kind of niche in the online course industry that prefers to consume webinars and then buy through those webinars?

Speaker 2:

no, I haven't. I say I. I know that entrepreneurs watch webinars, because I'm surrounded by them and we all do, but I mean, I think once you get to a certain level people get are a little bit more protective of their time perhaps. So that's it has to be a good webinar, um, but I've also I've been reading that I can't remember the exact stat, I don't want to get it wrong I think it was like 35 percent or something like that people would actually rather watch a webinar about a hobby. Um, which really surprised me, because I I tend to work with course creators that teach people how to make money. Um, because it makes sense, right, you're investing in a course, you're going to see ROI from it. But actually, yeah, people are enrolling in all sorts people signing up for all kinds of webinars.

Speaker 1:

Do you have any data or like maybe a case study from one of these webinar projects you've been working on, because I'm really curious to kind of hear about. You know size of an email list, like how big should my email list be? Or if I'm investing in ads, what should I expect in terms of how many people land on that page and then how many people register? Because I think there are so many misconceptions about when I am ready to use a webinar as a sales strategy, like do I have to have, I know, 1 million people on YouTube? Do I have to invest this amount of money and have leads coming from ads? What's, what's the deal there?

Speaker 2:

yeah, no, it's never. It's never too early to have a webinar I I mean, it's the second best thing after actually having a one-to-one conversation with someone, like actually letting people see you and get that feel for you. So, case studies, I mean. So the client you mentioned at the beginning, so we did. It was a new product, um, and we launched at eight hundred dollars. We had a six hundred thousand dollar launch when they had less than ten thousand people on their email list. So that was awesome. That was with the webinar um, and then a straight away took it evergreen. So we launched literally once, took it evergreen and they make fifty to seventy thousand dollars a month. Now we put the price up to 1200. Um, they're right, yes, they are running ads because traffic needs to come from somewhere, but at one point it was 27 per 1400 purchase. We were getting a crazy like row ass.

Speaker 2:

And then my, my webinar, I, I didn't, I didn't live launch, I just was like, okay, I'm just gonna try it on demand, um, and I was seeing six percent conversion rates like from pretty early on and this is the first time, like putting putting that course out there, and I experimented with running ads. Um broke even the first month and paused them for a bit. And now I'm looking at how to bring down my cost for leads. I know if I can just bring it down by 50% or 25%, then everything I make on top of that is going to be profit. Plus, I'm growing my email list.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's a very good strategy to grow an email list and, like, be profitable from an ad funnel. Yeah, so we talked about results. What are some of the tactics you use to you move people from, hey, I'm teaching you something or I'm sharing something insightful about what you're currently struggling with, to transitioning into well, here's the next step and here's the offer. And a lot of people they use FOMO and fear-mongering to move that person from, like just watching to engaging. So I'm curious to hear about some of your tactics because lots of course creators they're very uncomfortable whenever it comes to pitching their audience and you're working primarily with people who are teaching people how to make money, so they are a lot more comfortable with that. But with the course creators we've worked like um language, uh course creators, um dog training, personal development. The audiences are very, um very sensitive to a self-speech. So I really am curious to hear what are some of the tactics you're using sure.

Speaker 2:

I mean, yeah, I feel like tactics is almost the wrong word, because when I hear tactics, I think I think set, like salesy, um.

Speaker 2:

So yeah, I think, rather than FOMO, it's, it's the joy of taking that action.

Speaker 2:

Um, and you know, they're not, they're not buying something that you're kind of pushing them into set, into buying, it's more you're, you're communicating the value of what you've got and you're saying like, hey, look you, you struggle with this or you want this. You told me that when you signed up for your webinar and because of that, I created this for people like you, and look at all these people that are doing that and getting great results. And this is the love and the care that I put into this program to make sure that you actually are going to finish it and you are going to get the results. So, yeah, not really a tactic. Just, you know, know, respecting the fact that you put, you did you put, you poured your heart and soul into creating this course and letting people know that, communicating that to them, like not doing it an injustice by just glossing over it and just remembering, yeah, you, you created this to help people and they can't, you can't help them if they don't know how awesome it is and how it's going to help them.

Speaker 1:

So, instead of blasting urgency like on every slide and the last I don't know 30 minutes of a webinar, saying act now or miss out on thousands of dollars in bonuses and your massive discount, we should focus more on like act now, because this is what it would mean for your future, just how it's going to transform so a lot more future pacing rather than. You know well, your present day sucks. Yeah, let's not make it suck anymore and just grab all this stuff and tomorrow you'll feel better because you have all this stuff.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, exactly like just having a bit of like empathy and, I guess, respect for your audience and, you know, just being like, look, this is where you are, like that's cool, well done, you've done this, this and this, and you know those are the things that actually make you an awesome fit for the program anyway. Um, I think, right, right Schwartz uses the term exclusive empowerment, which I love so exclusively empowering people to take action because, because of the things that they've already done, um, and then, but then, yeah, just being like you're still struggling with this, like that's okay, it's not a big deal, like you're not trying to make them feel rubbish about it, um, and then just connecting the dots for them, like here's how it's going to help you and yeah, here's what life could look like six months from now. Um, you know there's a need to be. You know, six months from now, your entire business is going to fall apart and be terrible. Or you're gonna like be a millionaire because you've got my program. Just being like, do you know, do you want to?

Speaker 2:

do you want to keep struggling with this and or like you know it's just giving them the choice, the autonomy, and you can only really give people that autonomy if you're like, if they really understand what you're offering, because people need to understand in order to make a choice so this also goes back to that whole idea of you need testimonials.

Speaker 1:

You need that social proof to make sure that you know, first of all, the outcome you're promising is something that is achievable for your audience and it's actually achievable with what you're teaching. And I assume there's a lot of using the testimonials throughout the last part of the webinar as well yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2:

So every time you make a claim, you want to back it up with some kind of proof. So if you're saying I can help you land five podcast, like guest slots or whatever, then have someone who's actually done that. Otherwise, yeah, people, people are cynical, people are gonna assume, assume that the worst rather than the best, I think these days how long would you say um, the self-speech should be to not annoy people.

Speaker 1:

Even if it's really good, right, because at some point, just like after final one hour of pitching and testimonials and whatever, answering uh objections, eventually it's gonna get annoying. So is there like a sweet spot? For how long that sales pitch should be?

Speaker 2:

So I am a fan of a longer sales pitch. For an hour webinar, I would say spend 20 minutes teaching, 20 minutes, sorry, pitching. I mean, if you've truly delivered value, which should really be your goal, you shouldn't be gatekeeping, thinking, oh, I don't want to give too much away, like you know, blow their socks off, give, give them value. Then they are going to stick around, they they're, they're going to reciprocate that, um, and I think while you're, while you're showing your modules and your bonuses, you, you can still be coaching them, um, talking about how this is going to help them, why it's important, so they're still continuing to get that value. And yeah, I just think people worry so much about annoying their audience that they don't give their offer enough time and I think, going back to your original question, that's also one of the big mistakes that course creators make this was an awesome episode, abby.

Speaker 1:

I'm so happy we're doing this. Is there any last word of advice? Um you'd like to share with creators who are already selling with webinars or thinking about it?

Speaker 2:

yeah, I just say, like you know, you're doing awesome, um, just don't, don't forget that. Like, good for you, you've created something, or you've committed to creating something, um, to help people, and that's you know. I think we can get so caught up in benchmarks and what everyone else is doing. We don't take enough time to actually be like, yeah, no, we we did a good thing and yeah, just again. Like, be be willing to test and optimize and, rather than thinking of that as this huge like, oh, optimization, just keep it really simple and, like you know, just like little fun experiments, like, oh, I wonder which, which opt-in page will perform better? And then just make sure you're tracking. You're tracking that and taking note of that, because there's no point doing a test if you don't. Um, if you, yeah, if you don't, then then do something with it or then keep track of that. So, yeah, two things you're doing great. And second, you'll be willing to experiment, be curious, have fun with it and, yeah, just keep, keep testing awesome.

Speaker 1:

So if people heard this episode or watched it on youtube and want some more of your wisdom, where should they go to find you? Or to? I don't consume some of your content yeah, so I'm.

Speaker 2:

I'm active on linkedin. I'm always happy to like, have a little chat. If you drop me a message, let me know what's going on. Um, you can find me on instagram as well. I am. I'm trying to go my instagram, um at apt content. And then, yeah, head to my website. If you, I've got a webinar on how to set up my day one evergreen funnel so you can build all the customer feedback into it and improve your conversions, and I've also got a book which you can grab on amazon day one evergreen by abby vandergast. So any of those places this is great.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, abby, for joining our podcast and for sharing some of your insights, and to the person who has watched this episode or has listened to this interview if you found it useful and want to get future episodes, then please subscribe. Wherever you listened,