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The Art of Selling Online Courses
The Art of Selling Online Courses is all about online courses.
The goal of this podcast is to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. We are interviewing successful business owners, asking them questions on how they got to the point where they are right now, and checking how their ideas can help you improve your online course!
The Art of Selling Online Courses
400,000 Email List Teaching English Grammar - with Seonaid Beckwith
Welcome to "The Art of Selling Online Courses" podcast! Today we talk with Seonaid Beckwith of @perfect-english-grammar
Seonaid began her career as an English teacher and, over the past fifteen years, has reached tens of millions of individuals through her website, Perfect English Grammar. She transformed the site from a basic blog into a comprehensive membership platform with more than 30 courses.
Residing in London, Seonaid enjoys engaging in deep conversations by the fire with a glass of whisky and is working on improving her cooking skills and Spanish proficiency..
Check out Seonaid's Website: www.perfect-english-grammar.com
Check out Seonaid's Instagram: www.instagram.com/seonaidbeckwith
If you're interested in growing your online course sales and funnel optimisation contact us at https://datadrivenmarketing.co/
Six months ago my opt-in rate was 0.8% and now it is at 4.75%.
Speaker 2:About? What kind of size is your email list? Over 400,000. Hello and welcome to the art of selling online courses. We're here to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. My name is John Ainsworth and today's guest is Shona Beckwith. Now, shona's a really good friend of mine and she runs Perfect English Grammar and what they do is they help people with English grammar courses, and Shona started out as an English teacher and she's built this up over many years to the point that she's got 30 courses available now and she's got a membership and it's a fantastic site. It's helped millions and millions of people. We're going to get into the details of that later on.
Speaker 2:Now, before we go through with Shona, today, I want to talk to you about Yosip AI. So Yosip AI is built on Yosip Balina, who is my head of delivery, head of funnel strategy, and over the years he's helped people make millions and millions of dollars in additional revenue through their funnels. And what we did is we took every coaching call that yosip's ever done and we uploaded them into an ai system and so you can now go and quiz it. If you've got a question about your funnel, you want to know about how to run your email promotion. You want to know how to build your sales page. You want to know how to build a tripwire funnel? What kind of increase in revenue you can get? You can go and ask yosip ai all these questions for free Now. To work with Yosip costs thousands of dollars a month, but you can access this tool for free right now. Just go to datadrivenmarketingai to access the tool.
Speaker 2:Shona, welcome to the show. Thank you. This is very exciting. We're doing this podcast in person, which is fantastic. Yeah, now tell everybody a little bit. What kind of courses do you sell and who are you helping?
Speaker 1:So we have a lot of online courses. They are for people who are studying English as a second language. Lots of people from Europe Spanish, italian lots of people from South America, lots of people from South America and these are all people who want to improve their English and, in particular, their English grammar. We focus on grammar.
Speaker 2:It's funny, right, because we've got a couple of friends, like Benny, for example, right from fluent in three months, who he's got this whole thing about. The way to learn a language is forget about all the grammar rules, just get out there and start talking to people, and he's a maniac. I mean, benny is just an absolute maniac. He's fantastic. I love him, and your audience is like the exact opposite of his audience, right, yours is the one who wants to learn exactly how. How does this particular piece of grammar work, instead of just throwing themselves out there and cracking on with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's completely fair and it's actually often the case that when you've reached a certain level in a language, that is the moment where you might want to study a bit more grammar. So I have a lot of say people. Maybe you're a professor in an Italian university, you've spoken English for a lot of years, but when and you get by fine, but when you go to an international conference, you maybe don't feel confident that you're really speaking beautiful English, Like there's bits of the grammar that you're not sure of and you don't want to just get by, you want to sound really impressive. Yeah, and those are my people.
Speaker 2:Okay, so your customer avatar is a professor in an Italian university.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Gotcha all right cool.
Speaker 1:Can hardly walk down the street without falling over them.
Speaker 2:So take us back to the start right. How did this whole thing get started?
Speaker 1:So what happened was I, like so many people, when I was in my early 20s, decided I wanted an adventure, I wanted to travel. And even when I was in my early 20s, decided I wanted an adventure, I wanted to travel, and even though I'd done a degree that was nothing to do with languages, I thought I would move to Japan. Because I wanted to move to Japan and the obvious thing to do when you're an English speaker in Japan is to teach English. So I started doing that and I had always liked languages. It wasn't that I wasn't like. I did absolutely have an interest in that field and so I went to Japan and I started teaching English and I loved it. So I loved the traveling, but I also loved the actual English teaching, and so then I taught English in a couple of other places. Then I came back to London. Then I decided to do a degree in linguistics because it was also interesting to me.
Speaker 2:Who doesn't need another degree?
Speaker 1:Well, you can never have too many degrees. And so then I was continuing to teach English during the day and I studied at night, and then I went and did a master's in linguistics because I just loved the whole thing. And then I went and did a master's in linguistics because I just loved the whole thing. Anyway, at the end of my master's I discovered I was going to have a baby. This was a good thing, and when I had the baby I decided who's now 14.
Speaker 2:Who's now 14. And just got into town for the first time. That's right.
Speaker 1:And came back unscathed yeah amazing. Um, I decided that I did not want to have a job, so I'd been fiddling around a little bit on the side. Um, while I was tutoring english, I put up some of my own grammar worksheets onto the internet, largely so that my own students could use them and I wouldn't need to carry so much when I was like visiting offices and stuff like that because at that time, tutoring a language meant like schlepping around London, you know, visiting people, um.
Speaker 1:And so this little tiny website just started to. I started to add to it, um, when I was not working, when I was at home, uh, and it just started to grow basically.
Speaker 2:So it was you didn't really have like a vision of no to grow this into something, and this is like I hear this not at all this is really common in people listening to this podcast is that they didn't start out with this grand vision of building out a course business they were an expert in the thing and they were teaching the thing and then they helped people by teaching that thing online.
Speaker 2:You know youtube videos is very common now, but it used to be put it all up and on the website, whatever that's right, and then somehow that turned into something yes, this is completely what happened.
Speaker 1:Case of this, okay, classic, absolutely no idea. Accidental business, um so yeah, so I started putting stuff online and I thought that maybe I would make a little bit of money from adsense and that kind of thing, yeah, and which I did, and then it just grew and grew and grew, yeah yeah, yeah, and so give people an idea what kind of scale is the traffic at now? So now we get a couple of million visitors a month very casually just drop that in nice.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, and about what kind of size is your email list? So it's over 400,000 now okay, great, and growing faster nowadays. Right, it grows fast. Shane has been doing a whole load of work recently on how to grow her email list faster by improving the opt-in rate, which has just been absolutely crushing it at. What did you? What were you at before, like about six months ago?
Speaker 1:so six months ago my opt-in rate from visitors on the website to joining the email list was 0.8 percent um, and now it is at 4.75 percent. Uh, so my email list has exponentially grown recently yeah, like six.
Speaker 2:It's growing six times faster than it was before. That's fantastic, okay. So you've got this fantastic audience that you kind of built up accidentally but you put all this content out there. You've got um, a lot of traffic. You've got a big email list. How does that turn into money? Like, how do you, how does that turn into students? What, what product have you got?
Speaker 1:so at the moment. Um, so, basically, over the course of all these years, I've experimented with loads of different offers and products, but at the moment, what we've got is a membership. Because we have so many courses, yeah, um, what I decided to do a couple of years ago was to put them all into one membership and there's only one thing to buy, so it's like a library of online courses, so you just buy access and then, as long as you're a member, you can use any of the courses that we have inside.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, and how much does it cost a month?
Speaker 1:It costs $25 a month?
Speaker 2:Okay cool. So one membership with tons of different courses in 25 bucks a month, okay cool. So one membership with tons of different courses in 25 bucks a month. How does somebody so obviously some people come along to the website, right, and they see the website and they go to the courses page and then they go and buy it. They say, right, I'm going to buy this membership. How else does someone get there in terms of becoming a member?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So there's two other main ways, though we do get quite a lot of people who just rock up and buy on the website. Some people buy during the welcome sequence. So once they've joined, if they sign up for the lead magnet in order to join the email list, they get an offer on the thank you page and the same offer again in a welcome sequence which lasts for two weeks after that. And the third way that people can buy the membership is just being on the normal newsletter.
Speaker 2:So they get offered the membership uh, pretty often via our like normal newsletters and the occasional promo gotcha and talk us through some of those promos, because this is, I think, really interesting the way that promos work for memberships, because if someone's got courses, it's relatively straightforward, right? We've got a system we've talked about it many times on this podcast about you take one of the courses, you put it on discount of 30 off for a week. You have a series of in our case, 11 emails that you send out about those about that course and you promote the fact that it's on discount at the moment. Then you can go buy it right now and you're going to get some money off with a membership. You can't really do that every month without it feeling a little bit stale. So how you do do the discounts, though right on it. How often do you do that?
Speaker 1:so the we do offer a discount in the welcome sequence, but as well as that on the main email list. So far it's been about once every six months. Okay, it's that kind of thing, gotcha.
Speaker 2:And then, what else are you trying in terms of the promotions for the membership, and how well is each of those things doing?
Speaker 1:So it's very much. This is a work in progress and we're experimenting with lots of things, um we're trying different bonuses, so one of our best ones was a live session, um, which was in january and was like plan your year in english, and so that one worked pretty well.
Speaker 1:So if you were a member before the live class happened, then you could come along to the live class and get this like uh, you know, I'd talk you through how to plan your language study for the year. You've got worksheets, you've got various things, gotcha, um, so that one was a pretty good one cool.
Speaker 2:So then probably every january you can do that promotion. That's fair. And twice a year you've got the discount. Yes, twice ish. What's the? What other kind of things you're trying out?
Speaker 1:so we've tried not offering anything but just talking about the membership a lot. That does drive some sales, but nothing like the amount. Yeah, as if we have a deadline, yeah, um, we've tried other bonuses. So I just recently offered a bonus, which was a video, like an extra video class.
Speaker 1:So, like a masterclass we're calling it which is separate from the normal courses, and I try to make it something which is applicable to all the levels, because one of our things is that we have people of different levels in the membership and there are courses for different levels. But if I want to make a bonus, I want it to appeal to everybody. Um, so the bonus I just uh recently offered was a master class, which is like an hour-long video class with extra worksheets and so on on the topic of how to learn english more quickly so it's like kind of techniques to increase the speed of your language learning, and that one also did pretty well okay, how did that?
Speaker 2:do you know conversion rates? Or is that too much?
Speaker 1:I don't know yet because I only recently finished okay okay, but generally we'd get maybe 0.2 or 0.3 on the a little bit less than that actually on a really good promo okay, gotcha.
Speaker 2:So have you tried running a promotion of one of the individual courses that people could buy separately and then upselling them to the membership? Or are you kind of morally opposed to it, like what's the have you? Have you tested that at all?
Speaker 1:so I haven't. So for a while we ran, we offered both, yeah. So when I first started the membership, on the sales page for each course there was the you can buy the course on its own, yeah, or you can buy the membership. Um, and basically people stopped buying the courses, which okay seems reasonable because the price difference was quite a lot, because, like, one of the big courses cost 150 dollars at that time and then the membership costs, you know, 25 or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, um, so the membership looked like a better deal um I haven't tried, like basically I haven't tried this apart from that kind of thing, because I just love the simplicity of our current setup. Yeah, and it's so nice not having people getting different things yeah but it is something I might try in the future yeah, be interesting.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to think through in terms of bonuses and shona and I have this kind of conversation quite often, like we live around the corner from each other and we talk about this quite a lot um, what about if you said here's this particular course we're going to focus on this month and if you are interested, you can get that? For what was it? 25 bucks a month for your membership.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Right, you can get that for $25. And you join the membership, you get this course and you get all the other courses as well, and at the end of the month, if you decide you don't like it, then you can just keep that one course forever and you cancel the membership, but you've still got that course. Hmm, because then you could really focus on that segment of your audience who is at whatever B1 level or is interested in that particular challenge or something like that, and that way you wouldn't have to create a new bonus.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe, particular challenge or something like that, and that way you wouldn't have to create a new bonus. Yeah, maybe it's like do you know, you know, um 100 million dollar offer? Yeah, alexa, most of his thing. Right, one of the things I'm pretty sure it's from in there is a better than money back guarantee. Yes, and I first heard I'm trying to remember there's a book called getting everything you can out of all that. You've got something like that. Yes, that's from a classic old marketer. I don't remember his name now he's got a really, really, really dark tan I completely know who you mean jay abraham, okay.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, he really focuses on like how can you make guarantee so good that it's like would be crazy for somebody not to?
Speaker 2:yeah and I worked one of these with christopher sutton a while ago and it was something like this like you know, you buy. You buy this thing and if you don't like it, you not only get all your money back but you also get to keep all the courses that you bought, or something like that. And it's like it feels a little like, oh, someone's gonna take advantage of me and they're going to get that right. And that is true. Some people will right, they're fine, but also it's so good of an offer that it makes it really easy for someone to say yes, because they're like oh, cool, great, I want that course and I get to try the membership, and if I don't like the membership, I still got the course and I get it for whatever for free or for $25 or something like that. I think that might be an interesting, at least worth the test. I mean, like you know, it's up to you, right, it's your business, but it's I. I think that something like that could be an interesting test yes how does that sound?
Speaker 1:that sounds like an interesting test. I feel like there's definitely like I thought about how to make the guarantee better.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:At the moment it's 30 days money back. Yeah, so you can cancel the membership at any time and if you don't like it, we'll also give you your money back for that month. Yeah, getting to keep one of the courses is if don't like it. It's also a pretty interesting idea, it'd be strong, wouldn't be strong. Yeah, I would.
Speaker 2:I'm actually pretty tempted to try that and it would give you a really good, a good angle for the promotion yeah so one of the things that's a really big deal when you're trying to put together a email promotion is figuring out what angle to have, and the angle defines the rest of the whole email promotion. Yeah, if you had that, then what you could do would be you have that one segment of your audience who's at that level, b2 or whatever it is, or who's interested in that particular topic. You hammer about that topic or that area, which you've already written email promotions for before, so you could pull some stuff from that, or you could redo it. And then it allows, it gives you, let's say, it works right, just for sake of argument. It then allows you to go oh cool, well, next time we're going to do something about a different one. And then it's like the structure of it is is straightforward. If it doesn't work, it's like oh well, you know, that was an interesting test, john, thank you very much.
Speaker 2:But this is like I'm fascinated by this because we have we have generally done promotions for courses without focusing on the membership as the main thing. We have the membership as an upsell or a more expensive upsell or something like that. We haven't done as much of the ones that you're doing, and I've been interviewing people recently. If you want to go check out some of the previous episodes, we've got one from Scott's Bass Less, base lessons, scott divine from scott's base lessons where he talked about how he's doing it, and then pat flynn as well. Did you hear those ones?
Speaker 2:yeah yeah, and pat's, what did you think of pat's idea? Because his idea was you take the membership and then you have a like a membership plus like a cohort for a period of time, and I imagine you would hate that so I've been talking about this recently okay um, and I I recently had a marketing coach who was very into this idea as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah and um, so it might. I think it would work. Okay, to be frank, yeah, and so I'm not against the idea of trying it. Yeah, um and especially. I do like a little. I like the idea of trying it and especially I do like a little. I like the idea of a little bit more high touch going through the courses, because obviously with online courses sometimes people don't use them. With us, with churn, it's very clearly people who don't start who churn Right.
Speaker 1:And so a way to get people to start would be really good, yeah, and when I made the courses originally, and so a way to get people to start would be really good, and when I made the courses originally, I did them like I had a beta group and I dripped the course every week and people did get really nice results doing that, because they were much more likely to you know, in this group environment finish the course. So I'm not against it. I'd need to work out how it would work because we're such a small team. Yeah, but one of the nice things about that is at least you could try the cohort, you could finish the course and if you hated it you wouldn't need to do another cohort.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not committing to a long term. Right, for two years we're going to do this membership or something like that.
Speaker 1:That's right, and it's not like adding a weekly call into the membership for everyone.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:It's just these people, just for this time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:One of the things that we're looking at doing for our audience, for people who listen to this podcast, is a cohort for Back Friday and we've done a weekly membership and it worked for a lot of people it didn't work for everybody, because not everybody did it, yeah, and so we're like okay, yes, let's pull that apart and be like why did people not, why did not everybody do it?
Speaker 2:like? We know people who've gone through that program and become multi-millionaires from it. And we know I know people who you probably won't have come across because they never implemented anything and they're not like they're not like oh, why not? This is this massive potential, and why have you not done the thing? And so, rather than be like annoyed at them about it, what I want to do is go back through and go okay, let's figure out exactly why they didn't do it.
Speaker 2:So one of the things we're doing right now is we're taking a whole system for writing emails yeah which is, like, I think, where people get stuck the most and rebuilding it so that we can help people to be able to do it. And I'm we're testing it out this week and with uh joe, who's a joint friend of ours, yeah, and if that works well, or however well that works, we're going to improve and improve and improve and eventually what I'm thinking is we'll have a cohort based thing where we help people go through and write email promotions, and if that works great, maybe we'll make it a monthly thing. If it doesn't work great, maybe we put it apart again or whatever. But it's like there's that.
Speaker 2:I love the idea for the Black Friday one in particular. We've got like a beginning and an end and you go did it work or not not? Like it just kind of keeps going and then you can figure out and eventually you go yes, that's the formula for our audience, for our thing. So what would be the things that would help you decide whether or not you would do that cohort? Is it capacity in your team?
Speaker 1:probably is um, because I feel like a cohort and I I mean, I could be wrong about this, but I'm assuming that a cohort needs live sessions, um, and so it would be about who would do them when they'd happen. For us, time zones are a problem because we have such a global audience, um, and also which course to choose um, but I think actually, it's almost certainly something I'm going to test this year gotcha.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's one of the beautiful things. Right, you've got a bunch of spaces. Every month there's a space for another test, or three of them a year are filled out at the moment, and you're kind of figuring out the other ones, that's right. What's frustrating for you at the moment? With? You're kind of figuring out the other ones, that's right. What's frustrating for you at the moment? With the?
Speaker 1:with your business so actually, the thing that's most frustrating is that I have a million ideas and things I want to do and I don't have either personal or team capacity, and so it's about working out which ones to do first, how to plan them better, how to get help in a sensible way, how to structure my own weeks better so I can do more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we can just have more output.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how's what size is your team at the moment?
Speaker 2:so there are three of us, including me okay, yeah, and then some freelance help as well yeah, so then we've got not regular, okay.
Speaker 1:Um, so I've been working with probably they wouldn't consider themselves freelancers, but like a copywriter and a person to help with opt-ins, so it's more like they're a mini agency, gotcha. But and then yes, there's somebody who you know I'll call on for this task or that task, but we don't have a lot of regular freelancers. We don't have any regular freelancers apart from you know, if I need something in Google Analytics, I'll go to this person. But that's once every six months or whatever.
Speaker 2:Give people an idea how many people are in your membership at the moment.
Speaker 1:Just over 2,000. Okay, so, yeah, 2,200, something like that.000.
Speaker 2:Okay, so yeah, 2,200, something like that, gotcha, okay, and what's the goal for the year? Where do you want to get to? I want to get to 5,000 members. 5,000 members, yeah, okay, cool, nice. And so how's that with? How do you feel about that with hiring? So you've got this team of three of you. You've got some freelancers. Got this team of three of you, you've got some freelancers. You're frustrated with capacity. Do you think I should hire another person? Or, like, I really don't want to hire another person because I want to keep the team small, like what? What's your thinking about that?
Speaker 1:so I think some of the I actually think the bottleneck here is my ability to plan and delegate um.
Speaker 1:So this is a thing I'm working on um, and I find that I can delegate quite well to my team when um, because they're there and I know they can do the thing um, and it's easy just to like send a task over Can you do this today?
Speaker 1:Kind of thing, whereas if I'm and I don't really want to expand the team much at the moment Both the people on my team are English teachers, so they do content, they do lots of really helpful stuff, but probably the help that I need just now is more technical um, and I think the thing that I need to work on is like planning out tasks, working out you know exactly what needs to be done and what kind of person needs to do it, and then finding freelancers who can do that.
Speaker 1:And that's definitely the thing that I'm going to be working on in the next little while, because I'm so you know I'll be doing a task and I'll think, oh, somebody else could probably do this little chunk of it, but I don't have someone to hand. I don't think about it far enough ahead If I go and find somebody to do that task, then you know it'll be three days before it gets done. I, you know it'll be three days before it gets done. Um, I could just do it now, so I just do it, and that doesn't actually work long term because of the bottleneck is absolutely my capacity at the moment yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Do you think you will have to expand your core team to hit the goal that you have? Or do you think if you get better at planning and you get better at getting everything organized in advance and find the right freelancers, that you can do it with that?
Speaker 1:I think I can do it with that. But you know, I'll reevaluate in two months, in four months and so on and see if I'm getting close to it yeah, okay, the people who listen to this podcast tend to be somebody who has already got.
Speaker 2:They've got an audience. It's made, let's say, 200 000 people have followed them on instagram or youtube, something like that. They've got some courses already. They probably don't have a team, yeah, it's just them doing everything. At the moment. They're feeling slightly overwhelmed, yeah, by the whole thing, um, and then they're not making as much money as they could be from this. Yet what would be your advice to someone like that? What things had worked for you in the past when you were in that situation that kind of helped you level up?
Speaker 1:so I think, when you're a subject matter expert, yeah it's.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's absolutely not easy, but it is a lot more comfortable to do things like make content for youtube or a blog or instagram and to make courses, because you're essentially both of those are the same skill set.
Speaker 1:You're good at explaining things, you can put yourself out there in a nice way and people really get value from your work.
Speaker 1:I think selling things is a completely different skill set, and what helped me a lot was to decide that I am going to focus on learning and getting help with this completely different set of things which are, you know, broadly, business and marketing, and it's really really different. I think it's really easy to think that, because you've got a big audience and courses, this stuff should just kind of follow, but it completely does not. It's a whole skill set on its own and really worth learning. So I feel like for me, what worked was to take some of the like effort that I was putting into like explaining things really well, learning how to write blog posts well and all that kind of stuff, and just focus it on marketing. Learning funnels, learning copywriting, um, which is completely different from writing about your subject matter, um. Learning how to look at conversion rates all this stuff which often doesn't come naturally to people who are good at a language or good at music or good at, you know this kind of stuff that we like to talk about on the internet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and it's interesting, right, because it's a whole. It's a whole nother skill set and therefore it's uncomfortable, yes, and therefore it's very easy, when you feel that discomfort internally, to think, oh, I shouldn't be doing that thing, I don't want to do that thing, I'm going to avoid doing that thing. Let me do the thing that I know how to do. I want to make more courses, I want to make more content and then justify, yeah, that decision that you made emotionally to yourself, logically, and so I can't do, I can't possibly be doing promotions until I have this complete suite of courses, or I've got this other thing built, or I need to build up this other. You know my my these videos for Instagram or for YouTube, whatever, first, but I think that getting into that when you're relatively early on is such a big deal because it's a whole. It's like the third stall, third leg to the stall, right?
Speaker 2:yeah and it allows you to make more money now, which is great, but it also allows you to get good at that thing that later on is going to really serve you really well and help you figure out which of the things that you're making have got product market fit and people actually want. And we've got a friend, jack, who I think is doing a great job at this and he's just starting out with banjo skills. If you're interested in learning banjo ban banjo skills on YouTube, he's fantastic and he's just working away. Every month he's doing he's promoting something else. Every week he's promoting something else to kind of figure out what is it the audience actually is after. And really, even though he's so early on in the whole process, I think that skill that he's learning it's going to serve him.
Speaker 1:It's going to make the whole thing grow so much better absolutely, um, and I think it's quite easy to basically, if you're not making like it's so much effort to make all the content and make all the courses, if you're not also making money from that, you're just gonna burn out yeah like it's not gonna work long term.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's really worthwhile starting as early as you can, and certainly for me. I didn't start anything like early enough. I built a big website and audience, like many people do, right, without knowing essentially anything about business. Yeah, um, but it is so worthwhile because you want your business to be sustainable, right, you want it to give you a good living and you want it to continue, and you can't do those things if you're not making enough money yeah, yeah, and I think most people who are selling courses don't have any idea how much money they could be making from the audience that they've currently got, because they're not putting all those things in place.
Speaker 2:Well, shona, thanks so much for coming on today. Really appreciate your time.
Speaker 1:You are so welcome.
Speaker 2:If people want to look up your website, they want to go and see what you're up to. Where should they go check you out?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the main website is perfectenglishgrammarcom. If you put Perfect English Grammar into Google, you will probably find me. We're the same thing on the socials. That's the grammar, that's the grammar channel. And if you want to follow me personally, I'm shona beckwith on instagram and I talk a little tiny bit about business and what I'm up to there nice, fantastic.
Speaker 2:Um, if you found this interview useful and you want to get future episodes, please subscribe wherever you listened. And if you want to get future episodes, please subscribe wherever you listened. And if you want to get help with your funnels, then the first thing to go check out is yosipai. So go to datadrivenmarketingai and go and sign up for that, and yosip is going to be helping you out with your funnels in no time at all. Thanks so much for listening everybody, and shona, thanks again for coming on. You're so welcome such a pleasure.