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The Art of Selling Online Courses
The Art of Selling Online Courses is all about online courses.
The goal of this podcast is to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. We are interviewing successful business owners, asking them questions on how they got to the point where they are right now, and checking how their ideas can help you improve your online course!
The Art of Selling Online Courses
How Daniel Schreiber Made a $3M Sales Funnel (Genius Strategy)
Book a call with me or someone from my team at www.datadrivenmarketing.co/call
Unlock the secrets of transforming passion into profit by joining us for an inspiring conversation with Daniel Schreiber, a former PE teacher who turned his wife's fitness influence into a $3 million empire. Discover how Daniel and his co-founder Benoit prioritized ownership of their product and navigated the tumultuous landscape of app development during the COVID-19 pandemic. Our discussion highlights the critical decisions that helped sustain their business, including the pivot from gym to home workouts and the lucrative introduction of online coaching.
Get ready to explore the intricate world of subscription models and marketing strategies as Daniel shares the highs and lows of managing a growing subscriber base. Learn about their inventive use of social media, which amassed an impressive following of over 174,000 on Instagram, and how they leveraged user feedback and strategic advertising to fuel their growth. We'll also delve into their pricing strategies and the impact of community involvement on customer retention, offering insights into keeping churn rates at bay while enhancing client experiences.
Finally, discover the art of optimizing subscription plans and scaling revenue through innovative coaching programs. Daniel reveals the potential of coaching to outpace app revenue and shares effective client acquisition tactics that bypass heavy reliance on paid advertising. We wrap up by discussing the Theory of Constraints and its pivotal role in overcoming business challenges, providing valuable lessons for entrepreneurs aiming to scale their ventures. Don't miss out on these actionable insights that promise to elevate your business acumen and inspire growth.
Daniel Schreiber took his fitness app from launch to $3 million a year in just two short years. He might just be a marketing genius, and when I share with you how he did it, you'll see why I say that Now. Of course, it wasn't easy getting started.
Speaker 2:We launched it and started selling it before we even finalized like how we were going to do it. That's just like how desperate we were to like bring in cash. Being an entrepreneur is like jumping out of a plane and then building the parachute on the way down. But what happened next?
Speaker 1:was pure business genius.
Speaker 2:If the experience was incredible, when they get on the call with you, it's going to be a no-brainer.
Speaker 1:A former PE teacher turned entrepreneur, he's transformed his wife's fitness influence into Taiwan's leading female fitness empire. Well, he's built a $3 million funnel, and today I'm going to be breaking it down for you, explaining how he built a massive following of over 170,000 people. The funnel he uses to get new customers for free, and what they do behind the scenes that brings in all of the profit.
Speaker 2:If you focus on that one constraint and put all your energy into it, your business will grow like period.
Speaker 1:That's just what will happen. Hello and welcome to the art of selling online courses. We're here to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. Daniel, welcome to the show. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2:Really glad to be here.
Speaker 1:So there's a few specific bits of your business I really want to dive into, but could you explain, like in just a few minutes, like how you got to where you are today, like what was your journey?
Speaker 2:yeah, so 2019. Uh, we had already done something where we were working with candace, who's my wife and co-founder, um, in trying to sell her fitness courses online through like a white label app, and we came to the realization that we wanted to own our own product, and so that's why we wanted to create our own app. And so that's when we in summer of 2019, we met our co-founder, benoit, and so the three of us partnered together and we created NewlyApp, and so from then, it's been just a continual evolution of continuing to improve the product and try to find more ways and better ways to grow the company, because we started off with just the app and then, two years after just having the app, we realized that we needed to have other things to be able to sell on the back end to our existing subscriber base, and that's how we ended up launching the online coaching. So we launched online coaching two years ago, and we've grown it since then, all the way till now.
Speaker 1:Nice, and how much does the app cost?
Speaker 2:So the app is going to. We have three different pricing options. For the monthly option, monthly subscription is going to be roughly about 15 us, and then for quarterly it's about 33 us and for annual it's, uh, around 90 us okay, so the app itself is really cheap and that includes, like you mentioned about the courses.
Speaker 1:Does the app include all of those courses or how does it kind of structured? What's the? What do people get in there?
Speaker 2:yeah, so the courses that I was talking about was we used to have a court. Before we created newly app, we just had a, a white label app where my wife was putting her fitness course onto that app. Then once we launched newly, then we kind of like shut that down and then we just focused in on newly. But one of the other things that we had tested out that we launched two years ago and we did for the past two years was we had an online nutrition course, and so that was another one-off product that we did, aside from the app subscription and online coaching, and that one is more of a like we host that course on Teachable and then they can just go and get access to that nutrition course.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, yeah. So you've got, I think, like 13,000 people using the app. What's the kind of churn rate on that? How many people are dropping out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the monthly churn rate is about 10%. So churn, it's interesting. You bring that up because it's something that, for a new entrepreneur, was very eye-opening, because in the beginning you think, oh, I'll do a subscription and every month I will just make more than the last month, because it'll just keep building month over month over month, and so you get super optimistic about that until you learn about this thing called churn, which is that just because they are subscribed does not mean they're going to stay subscribed forever. And so we've kind of hit a um, a like settling point right around like 13 500 subscribers, and so over the last year we've just been kind of like fluctuating, uh, around that amount because we bring in just enough subscribers to replace the ones that are leaving every single month and how are you bringing in new people?
Speaker 1:what's your traffic sources for that?
Speaker 2:primary traffic source is going to be divided between our own social media pages and our um like meta, google ads got it, and so what's the what's the process?
Speaker 1:what do you? What kind of content you're creating on social media, like what? What's your main traffic? What's your process? What kind of content are you creating on social media, like what's your main social media using? Is that Instagram, or what's the…?
Speaker 2:Yeah, instagram is the main one, and then YouTube is second, but Instagram by far is the primary one.
Speaker 1:So what kind of content do you share on Instagram to build up your audience?
Speaker 2:So a lot of it is going to be more educational type content. From time to time we switch it up a little bit. We will do like some humor based stuff. You know, stuff that people would want to share. We'll also do a lot of testimonials or user interviews, you know, before, after transformations, things like that.
Speaker 1:Okay, and what size is your following on instagram?
Speaker 2:um, I believe it's 174 000 right now yeah, okay, yep, so big size.
Speaker 1:How long you've been building that for? Was that even before starting this? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah, so we, we started building that about a month before we launched, uh, just to start to build the hype up around everything. And then we, we launched and yeah, so it's been, uh, yeah, four years or so.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's strong. 174,000 in four years Nice, okay. Yeah, and is that mostly your wife who's like the face of the brand, or how's that work, yeah?
Speaker 2:So she has a pretty big following on social media as well. I think it's around 350,000 right now. Um and so when we launched newly, that was one of the strategies that we use. That really helped us out in the beginning was we didn't just use her image. We strategically partnered with three other of the top female fitness influencers in Taiwan to be able to launch it as well. Now it also happened that the other three fitness influencers were also good friends of my wife, candice, so that definitely helped in order to be able to like get them to partner with us.
Speaker 1:Okay, so your wife is already a popular fitness influencer in Taiwan.
Speaker 2:She's friends with other fitness influencers.
Speaker 1:Okay, popular fitness influencer in taiwan. She's friends with other fitness influencers okay, great start before launching a business? Nice, exactly, yeah. And then, um, you've used that and you could partner with these other people and they're all like faces of it, so do they all promote it as well on their own social media accounts?
Speaker 2:yeah, so what we did for that is we just set up a, an affiliate program, and then so they could promote it.
Speaker 1:So then they would just get a commission for every person who they brought into the app and is that a big part of the the driver of leads their accounts, or is that? Is it mostly from the newly app?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so when we, when we first started, we actually, um, we're just doing that primarily. We only had a little, we only did a little bit of facebook ads in the very beginning, so it's really like influencer marketing that helped us to launch from day one and then we really leveraged that a lot, especially in the early years got it okay.
Speaker 1:So to get people into the app, we've got the newly app, we've got candice's account, you've got the other fitness influencers accounts, all promoting the app. When you promote it, where are you sending people to do? You just send them straight to like is it apple and android and are you sending people just the app page or is there a step in between? How does that work?
Speaker 2:yeah. So we constantly experiment with different methods. So we go back and forth between sending them directly to the app stores or we will send them to our own landing page. So we'll process the payments via Stripe instead of through the Apple and Google stores. The difference is the Apple and Google stores. They take a higher percentage commission compared to Stripe, but the conversion rates are way higher on apple and google. That's also why they're able to uh charge a premium in in that aspect. So that's why we kind of experiment back and forth between between the two yeah, got it.
Speaker 1:How much do they take?
Speaker 2:like 15 or something yeah, so when you're in the small business program, when you're under a million dollars of net revenue not like gross revenue, but net meaning, like after 15 what you keep is under 1 million then you are in the small business program. But then once you exceed that, then you don't get that benefit anymore and then they just charge you 30 percent.
Speaker 1:Do they charge you 30 on everything or just on the additional bit above a million? Uh it then becomes, isn't it?
Speaker 2:you know? Yeah, it becomes 30 on everything. So it's like, yeah, it's like you got to be careful if you want to cross that threshold yeah, wow, okay, all right.
Speaker 1:So you've got this set up. You're promoting the app. You've got fitness influencers, including your wife, who are doing the promotion. You're sending people to either the app store or to your own, your own pages to take that subscription. That's all working. At what point do you decide? You said it's like two years ago, I think. But what? What made you decide we're going to add on this coaching program?
Speaker 2:To be completely honest, we were running into a major cashflow issue. We were like it was getting really, really bad, and the reason is because we launched at probably the best time in history, during COVID. It was unintentional, like we started working on this in 2019 and it was initially going to be an app to help females learn how to go to the gym, because that was one of the things that my wife identified and that she had a very strong passion for was when she first started going to the gym, she felt like she didn't know where to begin and she couldn't find the resources she needed to do that. So that's what drove her to create this app. Fast forward to when we launched in march of 2020, literally when COVID is just starting we're like, okay, well, we probably need to do something a little differently because gyms are starting to shut down. So we made a pivot and literally a month after launching, we released a bunch of new programs into our app, which were all home workouts, and it worked beautifully. So that pivot was amazing and we were able to ride that for the next two years, however well, not quite two years, because about one year afterward then, you know, things are starting to get back to normal and we start to see a decline and the writing's on the wall.
Speaker 2:But we weren't exactly sure what to do at that point, until it gets to a point where, like, okay, we're starting to have really big issues. Because during COVID we're like, oh wow, this is just how it's going to be and we're going to have these amazing like low costs to be able to acquire the customers and like people are going to spend a ton to like buy the annual plan and everything like that. But then you know that started to change. So it was really out of desperation. We're like, okay, what exactly can we do? Initially, one of the first thoughts was physical products and interestingly, we had kind of tried that out a little bit before this became a really big issue and it was a. It was a bit challenging for us. No one knew how to do physical products sort of stuff, and the biggest deterrent for us is that it's launching. Anything with physical products is very capital intensive, intensive, and we realized that probably not something we want to do when we're very strapped for cash right now.
Speaker 2:So we're like, okay, what else can we do? And we were actually serving our audience, because one of the other things that we've done is build a large private Facebook group, and so that private Facebook group has been really key to getting a lot of user feedback. And so we just asked them, like what's some of the things that you would like to see? And overwhelmingly, the feedback seemed to be regarding like online coaching, because the app was great, but a big thing that people lacked was the accountability and like getting more help in that regard. And so we decided to launch the online coaching.
Speaker 2:And it was literally one of those moments, you know, where they say, like being an entrepreneur is like jumping out of a plane and then building the parachute on the way down, like it literally felt like that, because we launched it and started selling it before we even finalized like how we were going to do it. That's just like how desperate we were to like bring in cash because we're we're bootstrapped, so we, you know, we're not venture backed or anything like that, so we have to uh, you know, kill what we eat, so to say. And so that's what we had to do and, uh, thankfully it worked out.
Speaker 1:Okay, how come you guys were cash strapped, cause it like a great business. What was, what were all the costs that were causing that to be an issue? When it starts to decline, is it a lot of developers or like, where's that cost coming from?
Speaker 2:yeah, so part of it is lifestyle no so, uh, nothing on that end really.
Speaker 2:It was just really just being new business owners not really understanding how to run a business in terms of, like, how to manage cash, because we would get in cash and be like okay, now we can like go hire this person and go hire that person. We can like try to grow the business, because our whole thing was we wanted to keep trying to grow. But the more people you hire, then that obviously adds into the overhead. Instead of like trying to figure out how to make the more people you hire, then that obviously adds into the overhead, instead of like trying to figure out how to make the team that you have be more productive. The thought was, oh well, let's just hire another person and like do more things. Right, and so I think that was definitely a mistake. We made um in the early days on on that side of thing, because we're like oh, we have money, let's just go spend it and like buy more things to build a business yeah, yeah, it's so easy to do that.
Speaker 1:I've spent so much money on things. I'm just like, oh well, we've got some money in the bank, let's try this. Yeah, it's like, okay, that's fine, except have you got everything in place? That means that that thing is actually going to work. Or you just throwing money at something and it's like, oh yeah, that didn't work again, damn it. Here's another 15 000 spent on growing this. That didn't work and when you look back at it you're like that was so frustrating, I can't believe I did that but the time it's like, yeah, this could work this might bring us another, however, it
Speaker 1:just works. This is going to bring us this much money. Oh, definitely, definitely, okay. So wait a minute. I I realized I missed a bit of a step there. One of the things was we got as far as the coaching and you've launched that, right. But one of the other things you mentioned was that you've got facebook ads running and I think google ads you said as well meta and google ads running into getting people into the app and that you said that was maybe about half of the. The total traffic was from ads um roughly yeah okay, ballpark.
Speaker 1:Okay, how much does that cost? What's the, what's the kind of spend on that one? Because that's one of the things I think a lot of people, once they've they've tapped out their organic audience, are like okay, cool, I can do ads, but then they don't have a great way of getting those ads to convert. It sounds like the app store has actually been a bit of a, because you've got an app as the front end instead of a course is a bit of a boon for you because it, it converts already. People trust it already. How much you spending per click? How much you're spending per new subscribe or a new trial? How many people convert to a, to a customer?
Speaker 2:yeah, so in terms of the rough cost that we're spending every single um, every single month, it's give or take around 40 to 50 000000 that we spend in paid media. Now, that's just paid media. We obviously have our marketing team costs and other things like marketing related.
Speaker 2:But just in terms of, like, raw paid media, that's like how much we're approximately spending per month in that regard. So some of the things that we pay attention to is, for example, like we look at the cost per install when we're looking at promoting the app, so we're trying to go for about the the cost per install, uh, when we're looking at promoting the app, so we're trying to go for about five dollars, uh, roughly per install is what we're looking at. But then, when it comes to some of the other metrics, like on average, what we're seeing is our cac for just, uh, in terms of the paid media, is roughly he doesn doesn't know.
Speaker 1:Can you explain?
Speaker 2:what.
Speaker 1:CAC is yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Sorry. So yeah, cac is going to be cost of acquiring the customer. So the way that we look at it is twofold. We have the CAC when it comes to calculating everything overall, for the all the marketing spend, and then we have the CAC when it comes to just looking at it from the ad spend and then we take a look at okay, how much are we spending on the ads and then what's the return that we're getting on that end. So typically for us it's about like a one-to-one. If we're looking like the entire marketing budget and then what we get from the app users and then what we get from the app users, it's roughly about one to one when we're calculating things out.
Speaker 2:When we take a look at the well, throw another term here LTV. So lifetime value to CAC ratio. So for us it's about a one to one ratio, and that's OK with us because we know that it's a front end product and we can make it up on the back end through the online coaching. So that's one of the things that we realized through trial and error, like just how important it is to know your numbers in that regard, because once you know your numbers then you can really start to dial things in.
Speaker 2:So for us right now, that's kind of where we're sitting at and why we've been consistently averaging about $40,000 to $50,000 per month in terms of the ad spend, because we find that if we start to spend a little more, there's a few things that happen.
Speaker 2:One, the frequency starts to get a little bit higher because we're in a smaller market. We're in Taiwan, so the population in Taiwan is only 23 million, and then you factor in that we're only targeting females, so that immediately eliminates like half the population right there, and then we segment it down to age 35 to 45 is really our main target audience. So now we're about to, like you know, six, 7 million of like possible audience size that we could be targeting in that regard. So that does limit our budget a little bit in that regard. But recently one of the things that we're looking at is trying to expand how we do our marketing instead of just like the direct response aspect, but more of a branding play as well, and then also shifting to more lead focused and then being able to leverage that to as a way to increase our marketing spend.
Speaker 1:Okay. So when you say lead-focused, do you mean like having lead magnets that you're pointing people to as well as the apps, or how do you mean?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so having lead magnets that's one of the things that was recently discussed with our marketing director is to leverage that because one it can then be able to get people into the app, because right now, the primary focus we have for the ads is just getting them to download, install and subscribe on the app. But maybe there's a way, even though we do have a free trial for the app. One of the thoughts we had recently in our marketing team discussion was what if we took it a step back and if we take a look at how marketing is done globally? One of the things that's very popular is like having a lead magnet that is completely for free, obviously, well, well, free, but in exchange for an email, right.
Speaker 1:So doing something of that nature and then getting them into the app and or, uh, the coaching yeah, yeah, yeah, the front end funnels that we ever use, that you've kind of got options to choose from are webinars. But webinars is really for stuff that you're selling a higher priced offer because you just have too many conversion points within it.
Speaker 1:They've got to register, and then they've got to attend, and then they've got to actually complete the webinar and then they've got to get to the sales page, and so you kind of need something a few hundred dollars upwards there, yeah, or a tripwire funnel which is like have a low ticket front end thing which is very similar to what you've got. So then you could create another tripwire funnel of, like, you know, one small course or something like that, or a challenge, which really challenges do work in the fitness space pretty well?
Speaker 2:Have you looked at those at all?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so challenges is definitely something we do because it's in the app itself.
Speaker 2:So what we'll do is we'll every month, um, we will either be putting in new content into the app in the form of like a new program, or we'll be putting like a limited time challenge that they can access in the app, but only for that period of time, and so we'll leverage the two of those, and then that challenge will be something where we'll then create a new landing page. So back to your question earlier about like do you send people to the app store? Or like how do you send? Where do you direct your traffic? Right? So that would be a situation in which we would actually have a landing page, because then the landing page allows us to use long form copy, include more information about the challenge that we're running, and then give them more information about what the challenge is and whatnot, and then run the ads directly to that challenge page and then get people to sign up from there and then, once they download and install the app, then within the app itself directly, they can just hit a button to join the challenge.
Speaker 1:Got it Okay. So in order to join the challenge, they have to sign up for the free trial for the app. Correct, got it Cool. You mentioned you had a Facebook group. Do you ever do ads promoting the Facebook group?
Speaker 2:No, because it's a private facebook group, so we can't exactly promote just to just to that, because what we do is we uh, once they join the app, one of the things that is part of like the onboarding journey when they enter the app, is we ask them, encourage them to join the private facebook group community got it.
Speaker 1:Okay, cool, all right. So now you've got people into the app through either the ads or through instagram, they. What percentage of people who sign up for the free trial convert to being a paying customer?
Speaker 2:percentage of free trial convert to being a paid customer. Yeah, so it was approximately 40 to 43%. Recently, we did some changes and it has dropped down to roughly about 35 to 38%, and the change that we did is we removed, actually, because I mentioned the three different price points that we have monthly, quarterly, annual. We recently removed, um, the quarterly plan, and the theory behind that is because two things one, it would help increase the first average order value when they first sign up, and the second thing is it would also then increase the lifetime value, the LTV, of the customer as well. So we did this change, and actually that's what's happened, is the average order value has increased. As a result, it's gone from, on average, the first transaction is $35 to now it's about like $42. Now transaction is $35 to now it's about like $42.
Speaker 2:Now the downside, though, is the conversion rate has dropped, and when we extrapolated and looked into the numbers, we realized the reason is because the quarterly plan always had the highest conversion rate.
Speaker 2:The quarterly plan actually had a 50 to 55% trial to pay conversion rate, whereas the monthly and the annual only had about a 33% to 38% conversion rate.
Speaker 2:So when you remove the quarterly plan, then, of course, the conversion rate will drop, because that's the one that had the highest conversion rate, but the benefit, though, is that the average order value and the LTV has now increased, so that's just a consequence we need to deal with. For now we're obviously looking into see, okay, what else consequence we need to deal with. For now we're obviously looking into see, okay, what else can we do to increase the conversion rate. But initially, what we've looked into and realizing is, because a number of our plans are approximately a quarter, like they last three months, we find that many people will sign up with the intention of like signing up for one quarter, because they can complete a plan and then cancel, so then it makes sense economically for them just to sign up for the quarter rather than like a month, which is going to be the most expensive or annually. So we haven't figured out that yet, but that's kind of like what we're trying to determine does the as the average revenue per trial, gone up or down now with that?
Speaker 1:because you've got an increased aov but you've got a decreased conversion and I can't do it in my head to figure out if those two yeah so so, yeah, the the increased aov, is that increased revenue?
Speaker 2:uh per trial, because the trials that we're offering are from like, they have to select a plan before they can begin their trial. Now, actually, literally last week, we launched a new test which is hiding, I mean, removing the trial for the monthly plan, and so, therefore, people can only get a seven day free trial. They use the if they select the annual plan. And, again, the whole point is to see what we can do to try to increase the average order value and also thereby increasing the LTV as well. Now, we literally just launched that, so unfortunately, I don't have any, any data to share with you guys in terms of what that, what that looks like. But you know, in a month we'll we'll have some, some data in terms of how that resulted in. But in a month we'll have some data in terms of how that resulted in Got it Okay, cool.
Speaker 1:So we've got people getting to the trial page, either on the App Store or on your own pages with Stripe account. We've got this conversion of something in the ballpark of 35% to 40% kind of varied after changing your trial to actually becoming a paying customer. After changing your trial to actually becoming a paying customer, um, what's then the average uh customer lifetime value that you're getting with people? I know obviously it varies depending whether it's annual or monthly and it will change now that you've changed those things. But about what kind of amount is that?
Speaker 2:yeah. So it's also interesting because it depends if they are on, if they're purchasing on um the app store or if they're purchasing on the website. So if they're purchasing on the app store or if they're purchasing on the website. So if they're purchasing on the app stores, the average LTV is about $90. If they're purchasing on the website, though, it jumps to about $120.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, cool. I just realized I threw in an acronym a minute ago that I didn't explain. Aov is average order value. For anybody who doesn't know that one, and if I've included any others that you don't know, email me and I apologize, okay.
Speaker 1:So, you've got people signing up, we've got you're making the money back, but you're just breaking even at that front end with the apps. That's getting you tons and tons of new people in every month Great, okay. So then you've got the coaching on the back end. So you started that a couple of years ago. What percentage of people is it? This might not be quite the right question, because I know you're quite booked up with the coaching, but like what percentage of people then convert from being an app user to being a coaching client?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that is the challenging part, because we do have a capacity issue. So there's no actual way of knowing what that is like, what the ascension percentage is, because we put the offer out there but not everyone can be able to have an opportunity to join the coaching, so it's a good problem to have. In that sense. That's kind of the constraint that we're working on solving right now.
Speaker 1:So how many coaching clients have you got at the moment?
Speaker 2:Yeah just over 600. I think it's like 644 or something right now.
Speaker 1:Okay, and how much are they paying a month? Or a quarter. However, it works.
Speaker 2:We have it broken down. So when they first sign up, they sign up for a three-month plan and we recently just increased the prices and we recently just increased the prices and the prices previously were about $1,300 for 12 weeks and then we increased that to $1,900 for 12 weeks. Now we haven't yet raised the renewal pricing yet, because the renewal pricing how it works is they sign up for 12 weeks. Now we haven't yet raised the renewal pricing yet, because the renewal pricing how it works is they sign up for 12 weeks and then after that we renew them. We encourage them to renew for a year. So for the annual plan, the price right now is roughly about 3300 US, but we'll see like if and how much we we increase that pricing too got it.
Speaker 1:Now. One of the things that I have been plugging on this podcast and I'm going to be plugging more is that people should set up coaching. People who have courses and membership should set up coaching programs, because the amount of revenue that you can make from the coaching program is massively more than you can make from just selling courses, or at least it's like if you've got one, you can double your revenue. If you add the other in as well, what does it work out? As for you, in terms of the, I know that obviously construct the capacity is a constraint, but like total revenue that you get from the app versus from the, the coaching at the moment, how do they compare?
Speaker 2:in terms of the percentage, but like what percentage of revenue comes from coaching? What percentage? Yeah, uh. So this year we hit a milestone a few months ago, which is that coaching surpassed the app revenue. So I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but I know it's maybe like 55% now comes from coaching and like 45% comes from the app.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's with capacity constraints. So as you increase capacity, that's going to go to a higher percentage, right, exactly Okay. So this is something that I think most people who are so a lot of people who are running a course business are like I want, I like my easy life, I like my, I don't have to deal with um delivery stuff. I don't have to have a delivery manage that big of a team. This is all super simple and straightforward to run and if that's you and you're happy with your life, great.
Speaker 1:You know, I'm not trying to convince you what kind of business you should run, unless you're not happy with how much it's grown and you are stuck and you can't grow it any further. Obviously, the first thing is go and implement your lead magnets and your grow your email list and run your email promotions everything that I bang on about on this podcast all of the time. You know, if you want help with that, just drop me an email, we're here to help. But if you've done those things, then you're still stuck and you want to grow the revenue more, then coaching is a great way to be able to do that, having that coaching program. What's the downsides to it in terms of managing the team or managing standards for it, or like what's the stuff that is hard about running the coaching side?
Speaker 2:there's definitely a lot of challenges. Uh, that's for sure. Um, in terms of challenges, the first things that come to mind are the fact that coaching, depending on how you're doing coaching right, if you're doing group coaching, then it's a easier. If you're doing one-to-one coaching, like what we offer, then the challenge is scaling. Human labor is always going to be challenging, more challenging and difficult than scaling media or code, and that's what a course is right. The course is hosted by code and it's media that you put on there, so in theory, it's infinitely scalable. You can have, you know, a million people tomorrow by your course, but you couldn't coach a million people because you're limited by human capacity. So that's definitely one of the first issues right there is because you need to scale up the human deliverability in that aspect.
Speaker 2:The other things that come to mind are in terms of like, for example, ensuring that the quality that is delivered is the same across the board. That was one of the big things that, from the very beginning, when we launched it, we wanted to ensure that we had consistent quality across the board. So, regardless of whatever coach that you are working with, because you're working with a newly coach, you're going to get the same consistent quality, and so that's really what we wanted to make sure happened. Now, in the beginning, it can be a little bit difficult to do that, but with the right systems and processes in place, you can definitely be able to achieve that. Yeah, so that's what I would say. Are the the challenges? If you want to talk about, uh, positives, there's definitely a lot of let's do that, I just kind of I'm aware whenever I'm like plugging something, I'm banging on drum.
Speaker 1:Yeah, people might be like, yeah, but you know. So it's like let's address that head-on, let's stop with the stuff that's difficult. So what's the advantages of it?
Speaker 2:so advantages are you? Yeah, there's so many. Um, I'll just kind of start going after them in any random order here. Like the first thing that comes to mind is the fact that you get to deal with way higher quality customers, because someone who is paying you, for example in our case, like average revenue per month from an app subscriber, averaged out, is like $9 a month, whereas for the coaching clients it's as high as $350, $400 a month. There's obviously a tremendous price discrepancy there.
Speaker 2:Now, as such, when someone is paying such a high premium for a product, you tend to get pretty good people that you experience as well and who are buying that, because I can't begin to tell you how many customer service issues we will get from people who want a refund on the last month because they forgot to cancel or whatever and something happened or whatnot last month because they forgot to cancel or whatever, and like something happened or whatnot, and they'll often make a very big deal about something that is really kind of insignificant, whereas for someone who's paying a really high premium don't get me wrong you may have some bad apples from time to time, but overall, for the most part, they tend to be a lot more understanding and reasonable in that regard, and so that was one of the other reasons why we also recently increased the prices, because we wanted to kind of filter out and increase the caliber of the clientele that we work with in that aspect.
Speaker 2:So that would be a big thing.
Speaker 2:And then another thing is and I mean this 100% sincerely which is you can help people get even greater results, because when you're just in our case, we just have a fitness app, you have no way of knowing, like, what they're going to do with that product on their own.
Speaker 2:Like, you can do everything you can to provide programming for them, to make the app incredible, to provide amazing programs, but at the end of the day, they're the ones who need to make the decision whether or not they're going to open the app and do the workout. But when you have a coach, that coach can be really invested into that individual and really understand their struggles and coach them through the challenges that they're facing and, as a result, help them achieve absolutely phenomenal results that they wouldn't have been able to achieve on their own, and being able to see those transformations and hear those testimonials from clients is is just incredible and I think one of the things that's really interesting there is if you start with the customer and you think what do I need to do to make sure they get the great result, it can have a really big impact on what kind of coaching you set up.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So a lot of people assume if you're doing a coaching program, it's a group coaching program and you guys are doing something more one-to-one. But then the way that you're doing it includes a number of really specific steps of like okay, where is it that people are dropping out? Where is it they're going wrong? Where are people getting stuck? So you can address all of those things. And then you've got a facebook group, which is a group thing, to provide more support in a different way and you can like fine, like fine tune a lot of these things to make sure they exactly match what it is that somebody needs. And, like you say, when you've got a course you can't do most of that. You know, like, maybe with a membership you can include some kind of support, but here you can be like right, what is it? Where are people getting stuck? Where are they going wrong? Where are they going wrong? Where are they falling out?
Speaker 2:why are they not succeeding? And one of the things that I know that you do is you track, like how well do each coach's clients succeed? Can you talk through that a little bit? Yeah, so we have surveys implemented at each stage of the client journey. So right when they onboard and they have their very first onboarding call with their coach, before they even start the program, we have put them on an onboarding call with their coach. Right after that, an automated email is sent out and we ask them to rate how the call went and give them an opportunity to give us any feedback Right there.
Speaker 2:That's the very first step. We can identify if there have been any issues with how the onboarding call went with the coach and we can immediately have that coach jump back in and try to help sort out any potential issues or miscommunications that the client might have had with their coach. Then, after that, then we have another one at the one month mark, at the two month mark and then at the end, when they finish the course, at three months, and so each of those points is a checkpoint for us to be able to determine. Okay, if we receive a bad rating or we receive a bad comment, that's our chance to go in and try to proactively, in a sense, quote unquote save the client before it gets to the point when they get to the end of the coaching and we, you know, ask them if they'd like to renew with us and they say, you know, they don't renew because, in a sense, the way we see it is, the client has in a sense made up their mind whether or not they want to renew before they get on that final call with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if the experience was incredible, when they get on the call with you, it's going to be a no brainer. Like you know, there's no quote unquote closing involved. It's just like they already know, like, hey, this has been an incredible experience, I want it to keep going. Or vice versa, if they had a terrible experience and usually, like within the first 12, I mean like two to four weeks, that's kind of when they've in a sense made up their mind, like if they're going to continue or not. Them continuing for the remainder of the three months is really like I'm just going to finish up this program because I paid for it and then that's going to be it. And so we want to make sure that the experience that they have within the very first month of them joining is so phenomenal that it becomes a no brainer for them by the end of the three months to then continue.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, beautiful. Okay, so we've talked through. We've got the traffic sources that are bringing people in. We've got how people are converting into the app, how they're converting from in the app to becoming a paying client, how people then convert to becoming a coaching client. Oh, actually, let's talk that part through. So you run a promotion that you have some spaces in your coaching? Yeah, what's the first step? That happens there, because you've got a really interesting way of doing this.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So the method in which we do this is we heavily, heavily leverage our email and our social media to do this.
Speaker 2:To date, we've actually never run any paid ads for our coaching. So all our coaching clients are either coming from our own email list, which we acquire from our app when they become an app subscriber, or from our social media. So, in a sense, these people have already known us, and so when we promote it, what we'll tell people is we are looking, we have an opening, we're looking for X number of clients, and then we send people to the. We have a whole landing page and a funnel that we built out to tell them more about what the coaching is and then to get them to sign up for it and what's the conversion rate, if you know it from once someone gets to that page, to the number of people who then apply to say they're interested in terms of oh, like when they actually book the book, the call with us yeah, if they, if they read the email, they click through these, the sales page where you're describing the coaching.
Speaker 1:How many, what percentage of those people then fill in the form to say yes, I'd want to, I want to sign up for some coaching, or I'm interested in it at least yeah, so last I checked is about 15.
Speaker 2:It's been a minute, though, so thank you for asking me that, because I need to go back and check, to see, check to see what that is now.
Speaker 1:Yeah it's interesting one, isn't it? Because I was talking to um andy morgan about this. Um, and it's a it's an important step is finding out who are the people who are interested. He was saying how he was in. He was in a mastermind. I think I'm okay to share this. He said he's in a mastermind and he said, uh, out of the people who apply, like eight of them, then follow through and fill out all the following forms and, like you know, actually sign up, for they didn't do calls, but, you know, get through to the next stage. And someone was like what about the other 12? What are you doing with them? Are you calling them? He's like, yeah, no, they're like pick up the phone, get on the phone yeah, you know, yeah, that that step there is, like it's a.
Speaker 1:These people are now worth a lot of money but okay, so about 15 percent of people get to that page. They then then actually fill in the form, and then what happens once they've filled that in, to say that they're interested. Is it a form or is the next stage after if they think they're interested?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the whole funnel I'll just quickly walk you through it is. They go to a page it's a squeeze page so we get their name and email in order before they can then watch a BSL, which stands for video sales letter and so it's a 15 minute video in which we have a video that explains what our coaching is about and to convince them to join the coaching. And then, after they finish watching that video, then, if they continue, then it redirects them to a type form, and then it's a very detailed type form because we want to get as much information about them as possible, and then, once they submit that form, then they will be taken to the final step, in which they will then be able to book the call.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that call. How does that work?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so great question. We do something that is quite unique from many other people in the industry in which we do, in a sense, would be like group sales calls, so we don't do one to, while we we technically do have one to one sales calls. I'll explain that in a minute. But the main method that we use to sell people into coaching is a group sales call, and we call it a workshop method because that's how we kind of advertise it as well, because obviously you're never going to tell a prospect that you want to sign up for a group coaching call because that's not going to convert well compared to telling them it's a workshop, right? So on the workshop, that's where we explain to them that we are going to teach you the exact process we use to coach our coaching clients and how you can also take this same process to be able to get into the best shape of your life. So, regardless of whether or not you decide to sign up for coaching, this is something that you'll be able to get value out of.
Speaker 2:The thing that we do is we actually charge a very small fee for this. It's approximately about 33 US dollars is how much we charge for this. This allows it to do two things. One it ensures we have like a 95% show up rate to those calls because people pay for it, so they want to show up. The second thing is we discover that if you pay by having them pay, they've kind of already invested a little bit into this, and so it's kind of that, you know, sunk costs fallacy in play here, where they've already paid a little bit into this, and so it's kind of that, you know sunk cost fallacy in play here, where they've already paid a little bit, they spent all this time, so they want to get something out of it so that therein increases the likelihood that they will want to convert and purchase on the call.
Speaker 2:So on that call is actually when we do the selling, because we'll go through a whole presentation and then after the presentation we have some Q&A and then we get into the pitch and explain how the product works, how much it costs, and then we'll just drop the stripe links right there where they can purchase.
Speaker 1:Got it, and how many people then convert from those workshops to signing up, workshops to signing up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so in the beginning, when it was my wife who was doing all the selling, she was able to convert at a 55% closing rate. We then trained someone else to be able to do the closing, so it didn't have to just be my wife doing all the closing and her closing rate was at 45% for these workshops. After we increased the price uh, uh, we increase the price by 50 the closing rate, of course, inevitably has dropped a little bit as well. Uh, thankfully it hasn't dropped terribly for my wife. When she did it for about two weeks before she handed it off to our closer, it went from 55 down to 50.
Speaker 1:So still pretty great, oh, right, yeah, so you've got thirteen hundred dollars to nineteen hundred dollars yeah yeah, wow, that's yeah strong there okay yeah, definitely, definitely strong.
Speaker 2:now, a big part is because, I need to say, a lot of it has to do with the fact that it is my wife doing the clothing. Since she's the face of the brand, obviously she commands a lot of authority, uh, with that as a result. Now, for our it's only been a week, so we have yet to see, like, what the results are going to be, but roughly so far it's gone from about 45% down to between 35 to 40%, which is kind of what I had in mind of what it was going to be anyway. So if we, if we can get at 40%, that's what I would like. If it drops down to 35%, okay, I can live with that, but ideally I'd like to shoot for 40%.
Speaker 1:And then the 60% who don't sign up straight away. What happens there?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So we have another really interesting offer that we do and we call it a scholarship coaching offer, and how it was born is because, as part of our process of training our coaches, because we need to find a way to make our coaches being able to have the same quality standard that I talked about earlier, right. One of the ways that we decided to do that is we wanted to give our coaches in a sense, like test clients, but we didn't know, like, how to do this At first. What we did is we just had our own staff become coaching clients and then some of their like friends and family just to sign up for free coaching. But then after a couple months, we quickly, you know, exhausted those options. We for like okay, we need more like test clients who can do it, who aren't paying. And then we came up with a great idea, which is okay what if we? So I stole this idea, actually, just straight out, I think it was out of Alex Ramazzi's a hundred million dollar offer book, which is one of the things he had mentioned was the fact that one of his big, amazing offers that he was able to do was he would sell clients into his gyms and his coaching by saying, like, pay this amount and if we don't get you the results by the end, we'll completely refund you the entire amount.
Speaker 2:So I took a version of that and what we do is we charge a significantly discounted amount and instead of a 12-week program it's just an eight-week program, and then we make it explicitly clear that these clients are going to be working with a coach in training. That's why we can offer this significantly discounted amount. And not only that if they do everything that the coach says and they finish the entire program, then we will actually refund them that amount. Now we will, in fact, refund them if they want, but what we try to do is we try to use that to apply towards their renewal. So we'll say that, hey, you paid this amount. So, for example, the amount we charge is roughly about $330. So we'll say you paid $330. So what we'll do is we'll just knock off $330 from your continuation into continuing the program. So that works beautifully.
Speaker 2:Because, going back to your question, what do you do with the 60% who don't convert? We will send them that offer and then we will get a small percentage of people roughly 10 to 20% of the people who didn't convert in the sales call to then take us up on that offer. So it's, it works beautiful because it's just like this circle of life, because then we can we solve. We solve a bunch of problems, right. Because we solve the problem of we need more like clients that are in training, like test clients, to give our coaches in training so that they can practice. But at the same time we also want to be able to give an offer to people who can't afford it at that particular price point, who we weren't able to close in the sales call, and then you know that's another offer that we can give give them. And then, of the people who do end up taking that scholarship coaching package, about 20% do end up then converting into like a regular standard paying client, and so you know that ends up working out pretty well.
Speaker 1:Nice. Okay, I realize we're coming up to the end of the time we had slotted for this. Are you okay to keep going for a little bit longer, or do you need to jump off?
Speaker 2:No, I'm good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, great. Okay, you mentioned you do have one-to-one sales calls. Where does that fit in?
Speaker 2:Yes, so we have in our sales pipeline, as I mentioned to you before, we have people who they view the VSL, the video sales letter, then they fill in the type form, then they book the call. We have a large amount of people who end up getting stuck in the pipeline, sitting at the filled in the type form but did not book a call, and one of the reasons potentially might be the fact that that we do charge, you know, $33 to join this workshop. So what we do is periodically we will email that segment of people who are in that filled in type form but have not booked a call, that segment with an offer to book a free consultation call with one of our coaches and then that is the one-on-one sales call.
Speaker 1:Got it, and how do they convert?
Speaker 2:Those actually convert really well. Um, prior to the price increase, our closer was closing them at 50%, which is great. Now we haven't't had enough data yet since we raised the price. I think it's about 40% right now from what I checked, but it's not statistically significant enough to give you a straight answer on that because she's only done a handful of them so far. But I would hope that it stays right around 40% because then that would mean that the price increase didn't really kill the conversion rates.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's fantastic, not only from revenue, but from margin point of view as well. With the coaches, right, yeah, right. If you've got 50% higher prices, even if you had the same total amount of business coming through, your margin on it is way higher. Now, exactly, yeah, yeah. What are the like with the? With the coaching? Like how much, how how much of the cost or the, the revenue that you get per client is taken up by paying the coaches?
Speaker 2:yeah, so the right now it is about 70% gross margins. The target is 80% and technically we would be at 80% if we don't include new coaches and coaches in training into that mix. If we just look at the coaching team then it would be right around 80%. So this will then allow us, yeah, those margins to get even higher.
Speaker 2:And why does that come into play is because when a new coach joins us for the very first three months they undergo intensive training and we don't give them any paid clients. So in a sense the company is eating up those costs and that goes into the gross margin in that regard. And then, even when they do start taking on clients for the next three months, they can only operate at up to 50% capacity. Then it's only at the six month mark. Then we can give them up to. Like, what the current capacity right now is is about 50 to 55 clients per coach, and so then we can increase them to that amount. But once the coach is at 55, 50 clients, then they're operating at a at an 80% gross margin rate.
Speaker 1:Nice, Okay, and now I know. One of the issues then was the, the amount of coaches. How's that going Cause? Last time we talked you were trying to bring more people in, but it's hard to find people who are good enough.
Speaker 2:So how's that all going? So one of the things we determined to do is to hire an in-house recruiter to bring on and help us find more coaches. So we're actually in the final stages, interviewing two recruiters and hopefully one of them is the one that we will go with and then, starting in 2025, we'll have an in-house recruiter whose literally sole job is just to hire and find more coaches.
Speaker 1:Wow, wow, and how many if you hit your goal? You mentioned that you want to grow to eight figures. Yeah, how many coaches do you need to be at that level? Have you made estimates of that?
Speaker 2:yeah, I have, I have that on the sheet and it would take me a minute here to to pull it up, but roughly I think it would be like 50 coaches, I think, in order to get to eight figures.
Speaker 1:Maybe a little bit more, um, but does the taiwanese market allow for that, or are you going to need to expand to other countries or like do you think that you can do that just in taiwan?
Speaker 2:I'm confident that we can do that just in taiwan. Um, and I say that because I have a friend who has a very successful coaching program in the netherlands and he's been able to grow his coaching company to multiple eight figures in revenue. And the Netherlands actually believe it or not has a very similar population size to Taiwan. I think it's 25 million or something like that. So when I saw that I'm like okay if he can do that in his population size.
Speaker 2:I think I could get to like half of that, at least in Taiwan, before we need to expand to other markets.
Speaker 1:It says Google says it's just under 18 million in Netherlands, so actually, oh, really it's even less.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, ok, yeah, we have more people in Taiwan, yeah, so I'm like, ok, well, we can definitely, definitely try to keep growing.
Speaker 1:Nice, ok, yeah, nice, okay, yeah, okay. What else are the? Are the barriers that are going to stop you from getting to that, or that you need to deal with to get to that 10 million mark? Do you need to increase the, the lead flow up front, or is it mostly about increasing that back end, because you don't know yet, do you, what percentage of people you can get onto the coaching? So it's, I know you don't know the answer to this, but what do you think is the answer?
Speaker 2:uh.
Speaker 2:So it's just going to be, um, a balancing game with the theory of constraints, because the constraint we have now is on the deliverability.
Speaker 2:But as we're starting to solve this, I can already see that we're going to have like fast forward into going into 2025 and, looking at the forecast we've set up, I can can already see that in the end of Q1, like in March, we're already going to have a problem with not having enough closers to be able to do the number of workshops and sales calls we need to do in order to bring on the number of clients that we have forecasted out.
Speaker 2:So that's also another position that we're hiring for right now is to bring on more sales closers to the team to be able to fulfill that demand. Once we do that, then there will also be another problem that occurs, which is we need to make sure that we're bringing in enough leads Now. Right now, the method that we've been doing has been working to be able to fulfill, like fill in the number of like spots we have for either sales calls or workshops every single month. But very quickly it's going to become a constraint because the existing list that we have may not be enough to either fill those spots or we'll need to find a new, creative way to like continually be able to fill in those workshop sales spots or one-on-one sales calls.
Speaker 1:Got it. So for anybody who doesn't know the term theory of constraints, could you talk people through what the idea of that is?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So this is something that I absolutely love. It is a beautiful concept and for any business owner out there it's something that you really need to understand. There's a book on that, I think the title is theory of constraints, by author Eli Golding. It's called the goal. The goal, yeah, that's right, the goal, great book.
Speaker 2:Um, for the theory of constraints, essentially what it is is that for every business, it's always going to if you've heard the term like a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. That's a great way to think about the theory of constraints, because if you have a chain in your business, in terms of the operations, whatever the weakest link is, that then is going to be the constraint within the business. And then the whole point is, if you can then focus all your effort on either solving or exploiting that constraint, then that's how the business will be able to grow. But until you solve that, then that will always then just be the constraint within the company. So in our case, our constraint has been our ability to scale the coaching, and the reason is because we don't have enough coaches to be able to take on the clients that we want to be able to bring into the coaching program. So there's two ways that we can solve that constraint. One is we can hire and train more coaches, or two which we have been working on is have those coaches be able to take on more clients so they can, you know, instead of handling, say, 40 clients, they can handle 60 clients, and then that can also be a method in which we can be able to solve that constraint.
Speaker 2:But then the whole thing with theory of constraints is, once you solve one constraint, there will then be a downstream effect, like what I was just mentioning, which is okay now we have enough coaches, but then we don't have enough sales closers to be able to like close all the people that we want to bring into the program. And then it's just a continual effort of like figuring out what the constraint is and then solving the constraint. The reason why I love it so much is oftentimes, as business owners, we struggle with figuring out like what the heck am I supposed to work on? Like there's so many different things that I can do, what do I need to work on? The theory of the constraints will help you paint a very clear, crystal clear picture as to what you need to work on, because it's very simple if you focus on that one constraint and put all your energy into it, your business will grow like period.
Speaker 1:That's just what will happen I've got a training that I did about this specifically for course, businesses, showing how do you, how do you identify what that constraint is? And one of the things I'll kind of give the quick overview here and I'm trying to think, because I'm saying this, like, how can I link to that? Because it was was a training I did for the DC a few years ago, so I can't share it publicly, probably, but the basic concept is, you need to add in for your business, what are all your numbers? You've got to have your KPI spreadsheet so you can see, okay, what are the conversion rates from, let's say, front-end traffic to people signing up for your lead magnet or, in case for your, for your app. You know what percentage of those people then convert to the next stage and each of the way through the whole funnel, all the way to the end, what's the number of people at this step? How many people convert to the next stage? What was the conversion percentage?
Speaker 1:But on its own, that doesn't tell you where to be focused, because what you need to know is what is a, what is a good benchmark number to be hitting for that? Now you're at like 40 conversion rate, let's say, with your group coaching calls. We don't you don't know for definitely, but somewhere in their ballpark. Okay, if you, if you happen to know, if the world was different and you knew that 80 was good and that everybody else was getting to 80, then you'd be like, oh well, right, I could put what I should be putting work in this, but 40% is great. So it's like, okay, you're probably not going to get to much higher than 40%, probably, so therefore that's not necessarily the one to work on. But you can look at it and go, oh yeah, but we know that the constraint here is number of coaches. Yeah, so right, okay, great, now we're going to go work on number of coaches.
Speaker 1:Once you've got the coaches sorted, then you go back and go right, what step in the funnel is the furthest from benchmark? And you specifically want a step that is within the critical flow of the funnel. So if you've got something off to the side, but we also sell this coach, uh, course about, um, nutrition. If you sell more of that, that doesn't like change the whole business. But if you can increase the conversion percentage from, let's say, whatever it was 15 maybe of people who get to that coaching page and then apply to 20. Well, once you've got enough closers and you've got enough coaches and everything else, you go okay, right, that would be, uh, a 33 increase in the business. If I can improve that thing and if you know that 20 is doable, because you talk to a bunch of other business owners and they're all doing like 2025 and it's like okay. So that's a good possibility of one to be focusing on.
Speaker 1:But most course, creators don't know their numbers like you do, like most people listening, they haven't put together their kpi spreadsheet. So I talked to you and I beg you, please, for the love of god, go and listen to the episodes that I've done on the podcast with yosip about putting together your kpi spreadsheet. I've detailed them all out. Go back through the archive and have a search. There'll be something it'll be called something like um, you know, kpi or tracking spreadsheet, and it'll be with uh, with yosip balina, and put that spreadsheet together. And once you've got that spreadsheet, you can start to go through, especially if you listen to some of the episodes where I talk through the benchmarks for each step within the funnel, you can look at it and go right.
Speaker 1:This is the step I need to work on and if you want, the really simple answer for most people listening is that you're not doing enough email promotions, so start with that. If you're not sure, you should be doing an email promotion every month. So if you, if you really don't want to do this and you just want the straight to the answer, that's probably what it is for you. Okay, so you're using the theory of constraints, which I love. I love that book.
Speaker 2:I've read that multiple times um.
Speaker 1:I've been told there's also a comic book version of it, which is like slightly different I've not tried.
Speaker 1:Um, nice, the book, for anybody listening who's interested, is a. It's a fable, so it's told as a story of a business owner who is running a factory that's going to go out of business and they're in real trouble, and then he learns about the theory of constraints from a mentor and he kind of figures this all out himself as he's going through and like, makes sense of it and uses it to completely turn the business around. And it's based on the practices that were used in, I believe, in japan, um, in order when they really started to kind of implement this stuff within factories in order to make things work a lot more efficiently. But, yeah, fantastic, fantastic system for business owners to be able to use to know where to focus their efforts. Okay, I think that's a good place to finish.
Speaker 1:This has been amazing. I really appreciate your time coming on and sharing so much. Um, I hope that you have inspired people listening to start setting up their own group coaching programs. We will see, we'll find out. Um, if you have been listening to this and you uh think, yes, great, I want to learn more about, like, what daniel's doing. Like, where can people go and check out? Have I know they're not necessarily going to be women in their 30s in taiwan, but if people want to go and check out your app, they want to look at your website. Where should they go?
Speaker 2:yeah, you can just go to newlyapp app uh, and then that's our website. They can find out more. And you can also search us in the app store newly app, and then you can find, uh, the app there anywhere else that people should be following you or looking you up yeah, for me.
Speaker 2:Um, I'm not too active on socials, but I am on instagram. I like being on instagram. Like, if you dm me there, I'll reply. I have a linkedin. You can find me on linkedin as well. I'm less active there, uh, but yeah, usually instagram is a good place, uh, to connect and what should people search for on instagram to find you?
Speaker 1:yeah, just my name, daniel dot schreiber daniel dot, schreiber, danielschreiber Perfect, yeah, okay, if you have been listening to this and you want to 2x your course or your coaching revenue in 90 days, that's what we can do for you. If you're making a thousand dollars or more up to even, if you're making tens of thousands a month, hundreds of thousands if you're making a thousand dollars or more from your course, your membership or your coaching business and you want to 2x your revenue, then book a call with me or someone from my team. Go to datadrivenmarketingco slash call and we'll have a chat and just talk through and make sure if we can help. Thanks so much for listening and, daniel, thanks so much for coming on. Really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.