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The Art of Selling Online Courses
The Art of Selling Online Courses is all about online courses.
The goal of this podcast is to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. We are interviewing successful business owners, asking them questions on how they got to the point where they are right now, and checking how their ideas can help you improve your online course!
The Art of Selling Online Courses
SEO Jesus Made $40k In 1 Week With This Weird Funnel
Ultimately you start experimenting with courses and you realize it's just money printer. I make that 15, 20 grand for that month.
Speaker 2:Known as SEO Jesus. Stuart is a serial entrepreneur, best-selling author and SaaS investor who transforms digital businesses with remarkable efficiency, recently quadrupling the valuation of his latest acquisitions within their first month. After scaling his SEO agency to $60,000 a month, in just six months he's become a sought-after speaker at global marketing events, from Bangkok to Miami to Saigon. Stuart has mastered the art of turning expertise into scalable income through his bestsellers the Power Lever Method and YouTube Millionaire Mastery. With a unique talent for distilling complex concepts into actionable frameworks, stuart continues to build his portfolio of seven-figure digital assets while teaching others to do the same.
Speaker 1:I feel quite guilty when I say I've made so much money just from selling spreadsheets, but the information in that spreadsheet is gold. My first video actually got 10,000 views in 48 hours.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, really. Hello and welcome to the art of selling online courses. We are here to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. My name is John Ainsworth and today's guest is Stuart Vickers. Today we're going to talk about how and why Stuart used Clickbait to grow his audience, why he prefers his 20k per month from courses over 100k per month from his agency, why he rejects the white hat approach and people's reaction to the approach that he takes. Stewart, welcome to the show. So you already had a successful business. Why did you decide to get into courses and what made you realize that you could actually make a good amount of money from selling them?
Speaker 1:so a lot of people in our shoes. They face a lot of the same problems where, first of all, you start a service business and that's easily the best way to start making money online when you're just breaking out and doing your own thing. But very quickly you find you get a new set of problems. Basically, so your revenue is fantastic. The actual margin you keep from that is obviously much smaller. You've got a lot of people involved on both sides, so the client side and the team side. So headline revenue looks great but you get tired.
Speaker 1:It's just a constant treadmill in terms of keeping up with the clients, keeping up with the fulfillment and managing that team, whereas ultimately you start experimenting with courses and you realize it's just a money printer, the actual revenue numbers are much smaller. But when you realize you're keeping all of that, the actual revenue numbers are much smaller. But when you realize you're keeping all of that, it's really quite compelling. So I find it's a much easier life when I do a course launch, I make that 15, 20 grand for that month and then you might get a couple of refunds, a couple of questions, but generally that's the end of the story, whereas my gut feeling even if we sign a really big client. It used to be celebration.
Speaker 2:These days I feel a, not a sadness, but a reputation.
Speaker 1:God, now I've got to do all the work exactly we don't have a problem with doing the work, but when the agents see the work is much more like, I say it's on the people side. You can do the best work in the world and still get fired because you just miss some small part of the psychology where that client just didn't quite feel right. They didn't get that the more personal experience they were expecting. So there's so many minefields like that. So even if we get a really big sale, there's yeah, are we going to get it right? Whereas with the course it's done, it's dusted and generally the feedback has been great it's funny what I found.
Speaker 2:So we obviously help other people to sell courses, but when I started selling my own courses and then you made a bunch of sales and then you're like there's no more work to do, we did the work, we made the course, that's it. It was just like it's like magic, you know, like you just kind of you've, you've do the work once and then it sells. You sell that same thing to everybody. It's absolutely phenomenal, yeah, and I'm quite an anxious person.
Speaker 1:So what's that immediate feeling of God? How are we going to repeat this, though? With the agency, we've got MRR. We've got making the same amount of money each month and it's growing, whereas with the course, you think, great, we made 50 grand that month in that launch. But now what? But then you'd speak to a few course creators and a few business coaches and they say, yeah, you just wait a few months again.
Speaker 2:yeah, probably a higher price point as well so I'm curious about your approach to marketing like so, in order to sell the courses, you've built up an audience. You've built up an email list. One of the things that you've done, you use youtube as your main audience building platform. Right?
Speaker 1:it's a bit of a contradiction. I'm famous as the seo guy, but I got big on youtube yeah, yeah, talk us through that.
Speaker 2:Why did you decide to focus on YouTube rather than SEO?
Speaker 1:So YouTube was just an experiment. As an SEO agency. Obviously you need to get clients we all know that and most SEO agency terms are dominated by the big players. You've got tools like SEMrush. They're a publicly listed company, so they've got immense resources to rank for every single SEO agency term out there. So for you coming along as a new player trying to break into that, you can absolutely do it. People rank well for certain niche terms like e-commerce, seo, or they rank for SEO London, but generally speaking, it's a big uphill battle. There are faster ways for that kind of high ticket agency consultancy business to actually reach people.
Speaker 1:So for me, it started off actually with a lot of in-person networking same way a lot of us start and I was just trying to replace that basically and find a more sustainable online lead gen funnel and ultimately just started playing around with youtube, just doing a few basic screen shares.
Speaker 1:My first video actually got 10 000 views in 48 hours and you suddenly think I've been in seo for years where you publish a blog post and you expect to take six months before you actually get any results to then publishing a YouTube video and you get instant feedback right away. You get leads coming in. You get all the views, the comments, so that was really quite transformative. So it all depends on your market. So SEO is great for many things. If you're a locksmith or I work with a lot of insurance companies there are certain niches where they need the product right now, they need the service, they Google it and they buy it. If you're an agency or you're a consultant, it's much more about that sort of personal brand where someone isn't necessarily going to Google you and just click on the top result and buy from there, whereas if you can build a relationship on YouTube and nurture that audience, then you're more likely to win in those longer term sales processes.
Speaker 2:Gotcha, so you got started on YouTube almost by chance, but it worked really well for replacing in-person networking for the SEO agency. You've mentioned that you use clickbait as part of the approach there. Can you talk us through that?
Speaker 1:So content is king. You can do the best content in the world, if you don't sell it, no one's going to see it or appreciate it. So with youtube it's a bit like courses you've got to sell what you're actually doing and actually win that click. So youtube is very crowded and you've got to get people onto the video. You've got to sell the experience of what, what your video actually provides. So I always say there's this perfect formula for every YouTube video I try and publish, it doesn't matter what I've actually covered, how technical, how deep I've gone.
Speaker 1:The packaging, the outside appearance has always got to be how to achieve your dream outcome faster, quicker, cheaper. So whatever it is you're talking about, try and repackage it into those kinds of terms. And people complain about the clickbait thumbnails that're a bit cheesy, bit cliche, that you're always going to be doing a shock, big, shocked reaction. You know graphs going up, strike dashboards, things like that, but it works and you've got to meet, meet the market, whereas that's if all your competitors are at that kind of hype level, then you've got to do that level of hype, otherwise you're not going to, you're not going to turn up and therefore get those audiences the quality content that you can provide but if that's what's working for you, for getting clicks, what?
Speaker 2:who is it that's complaining? I?
Speaker 1:think generally, just when you're talking about youtubers, there's always that sense of oh, do you do those cheesy thumbnails? Yes, of course there's a reason.
Speaker 2:It's popular, it's because it works so with that, where's the line in terms of it being clickbait? Because when people say clickbait, what they're thinking is 17 celebrities who you won't believe what they look like, especially number seven, and then you click on that and you go through and you're like, ah, that article was shit. So presumably I'm going to assume here that you're trying to actually fulfill on what it is that is in the title and thumbnail, but make it as hypey as you can within Like where's your line?
Speaker 1:It's exactly that. So you've got to fulfill on the promise. Youtube will punish you so much if you don't. So once you've won that click, that's only step one. Then you've actually got to retain that audience member throughout as long as possible through the video, partly because you're not going to sell to them if they don't stick around long enough, but because you're not going to sell to them if they don't stick around long enough. But as we know, the youtube algorithm is all about watch time and engagement. So as soon as I've won that click, I've made that promise. I try to fulfill on that promise. But we're not going to do it yet.
Speaker 1:When we first open the video, we go with much more of a hook angle and I say by the end of this video, I am going to teach you how to achieve this. Sometimes I'll even skip to the bit of the video where something really amazing happens and I get the outcome and I'll put that three second preview, if you like, right at the beginning of the video to get the excitement. Okay, I know this is actually going to happen now. And then I actually go straight into my lead magnet and that basically has two, two roles there. One is to maximize the conversion rate to get as many people into the email list as possible, but secondly, it means it's almost like a payment. They've now got to wait that 30 second pitch to actually access the quality content. So I'm getting more engagement and more watch time, but I'm also getting more email signups.
Speaker 1:So you're building up on all this, this tension. Am I actually going to fulfill on my promise? And then, of course, yes, we fulfill the promise. Here's the full process that I talked about in the thumbnail, in the title. Here's how we achieved it and here's the outcome and, of course, by the end of this video.
Speaker 2:Then here's that secret strategy we talked about and do you know like numbers on what kind of retention you've got for the first 30 seconds or stuff like that? Do you look at those kind of numbers?
Speaker 1:a little bit. So people obsess over the. I think they call it the waterfall graph with the whole drop off. I don't go to that extent, but I do keep an eye on the average view retention basically. So it's about five minutes for me normally on a 10 minute video, which is pretty good YouTube. On the desktop version it doesn't actually tell you very much, but on the mobile version it gives you these really good traffic lights that tell you of your views, your watch time, your click-through rate. Are you above average, on average or below average for yourself or for you for yourself? So that's really useful.
Speaker 1:So as soon as I let a video go live, I'll keep an eye on those metrics. I might. Then I tend to publish late in the day, so it's for the, the us market, and then I might go and start the dinner or something like that. But every 10 minutes I'm checking in, swiping refresh on youtube studio, checking those arrows, because I know if I'm getting above average views, then that video is going to blow up. If I'm getting above average retention, then it's going to blow up. Typically when I first publish the video I try and aim for a view per minute. So if it's been 20 minutes and I've got 25 views, okay, we're probably on to a winner here, whereas if it's been half an hour and you've only had 20 or 15 views, then okay, that's probably going to be a dud. That doesn't mean it was bad content, but as part of that process whether it was the thumbnail, the hook, the opening somehow we just didn't hit that mark this time and where are you at the moment in terms of views per month on youtube?
Speaker 1:per month I'm not actually checked for a while I think it's about 25 or so. It's basically a thousand views per video. Okay, so two years ago, I'd say, was the a real heyday of seo, and we had a big, big trend called parasite seo, and this was when all the ai stuff was first coming out. So then I was normally getting probably between three and five thousand views per video, and there was a point there's actually in march last year I think I actually went up to two videos a day, because everything I do is volume play. You know I can't control if I'm going to be one of those people who can get a video to 50 000 views. I can get a couple of thousand views quite reliably. So I thought let's just do two a day and therefore we'll get to the same number just through sheer volume and repetition. So that was good. But these days a lot of people obviously it's a joke that seo is dead and but, more so than ever, a lot of people are really feeling it now Lots of bloggers have been tanked by Google's helpful content update.
Speaker 1:It's a much tougher business model than it used to be for a lot of people. It used to be. Anyone could start a blog and make money online. These days, google doesn't really like that type of website anymore, so the market has shrunk, which is not a problem for me as an agency because we're serving more enterprise-level clients. But generally, yeah, we're much more around 1,000 views per video now, rather than 3,000 to 5,000.
Speaker 2:Less people are searching on YouTube about SEO or interested in watching stuff about SEO because they're like, oh, it's just not going to work anyway.
Speaker 1:Yeah so it's very noticeable, especially as an update in March last year and we noticed the market went really quiet. We weren't selling as much, we weren't getting as many views on YouTube. I spoke to other YouTubers and other agency owners in the niche and we all said the exact same thing. And it doesn't really matter what's actually happening with the algorithm, it's all about the PR. So if a particular business model has been hit, so if the bloggers get hit, they probably weren't our clients, but they were the vast majority of the market who were actually talking about SEO.
Speaker 1:So if they've all been hit and they're saying I've lost my income stream, even if that income stream was only a few thousand dollars per month, that means all the enterprise clients are listening to that, thinking, oh no, seo doesn't work anymore. But all it did really was built up a demand in the market whereby, sort of October, november, a lot of these businesses that hadn't invested in SEO for six months suddenly realized hang on, we're not making any sales, that's because you've not been marketing for six months. So it did come back. But yeah, it's a much smaller market. They're still qualified buyers, they're still, you know, e-com and local, but the general volume, the noise of the market has got much quieter.
Speaker 2:So you've got that. What was the number? Again, number of views per month.
Speaker 1:So it's about a thousand views per video I still try and do a video per day. It's probably more like three per week.
Speaker 2:It's around 20 25 000 views a month, I think okay, and how many new email subscribers are you managing to get a month from that?
Speaker 1:so I always aim, again as metric, I aim for a 10 opt-in rate and again, if I meet it, then great. If not, obviously it tends to be below that.
Speaker 2:So I think we're around 500 opt-ins a month, something like that okay, so that would be two and a half percent opt-in rate total. Something like that is that right that probably sounds. Twenty thousand two hundred would be one percent.
Speaker 1:So I guess, okay, you're the expert um, okay, cool, that's strong.
Speaker 2:That's certainly a long way above what most people are at. So what are you doing for that you mentioned earlier? You do a clip from somewhere in the video. You have the hype at the beginning, then you go straight to the lead magnet. Yeah, do you see? Do you notice a drop off in retention of people going, oh, I'll go get that lead magnet and they don't come back to watch the video, or do you not like check about that, or?
Speaker 1:I don't really think about it, because I don't want them what. I don't want them watching the video. I want them joining the list we cover the same content we do the same content enough throughout the videos.
Speaker 1:But you're right, most people put their lead magnets at the end and I'm always saying why would you do that when you've only got 10% of people left watching? Put it at the beginning and you'll get more attention anyway. And if nothing else, at least they're aware of it. I remember it was actually you gave me the advice way back, just in a conversation with a group of us. You said put your lead magnet in the video, don't just bury us in the description as a link.
Speaker 2:Oh god, actually call it out in the video, yeah, and give them a reason to sign up so you put that after the hook and then do you do it again later on throughout the video I try to.
Speaker 1:So this time last year I was just doing pure volume, barely even doing lead magnets. I was doing the classic. Yeah, most people don't even do a lead magnet. Some put it at the end. Those who do do a lead magnet, it tends to be join our free newsletter and, as you know, that's it's better than nothing, but you're not going to get a whole load of opt-ins, whereas this year, because of that lower volume, focus much more on maximizing that conversion rate and customer lifetime value. So it's much more about the custom lead magnet for that actual video and for that topic.
Speaker 1:So do you do custom lead magnets per video? Pretty much. We've now got to a point where we've got enough of them now, where I've kind of got pillars of content right so I can come back to that particular resource each time. But yeah, there was a period where I was doing I was definitely doing less than three a week at that point, but it was let's do the video, then we're going to turn it into a lead magnet, build a custom landing page and do all that, create a whole funnel just for that particular video, and then if you find it's one of the duds, then obviously that's not great yeah, how long do you think it takes you for setting up the custom landing page for that?
Speaker 2:so?
Speaker 1:I've had great revelations with this recently the couple of months going into Elementor, basically cloning the template. We know that it takes the same resources to sell a free product as an expensive product, but even then I wasn't going to the full length I would have on the full sales page. But what I've discovered recently so to answer your question, it was probably a good half hour to an hour or so just to get the layout right and so on. More recently, what I've discovered, if you view the page source of that landing page you've created, copy it and put it into claude. I've trained claude with loads of top performing sales pages, things from what is it?
Speaker 1:Automatic clients by alan sultanic, basically, trained claude. This is what a good sales page looks like. Can you take my existing page, all the html, and give me html back, complete with all the image urls? I've used things like that so that I can copy and paste it back into my elementor template. So I'm I'm just on wordpress using elementor, simple drag and drop page builder, but you can just drag in a html block. I can then copy the output from claude, paste it in and it designs me this beautiful landing page complete with sales copy, complete with all the sort of graphics, the before and after, everything that goes into a top performing sales page.
Speaker 2:So it designs the graphics for you as well.
Speaker 1:So it's not actually generating the images necessarily, but I've got a separate Claude plugin. Obviously, a popular one is the old way versus the new way infographic so I've got a custom Claude chat that will do that. So I'll screenshot that, put that into my draft, if you like. I still build the draft in elemental, but then, once it's done, I've got my layout there with all the images, I'll copy the page source, put it into claude and it'll then design something that actually looks really good. So because of that, it's now more like five to ten minutes to produce a really good.
Speaker 2:It's doing design work for you within html. That's very clever it's.
Speaker 1:I was transformative, so I was relaunching one of my courses recently parasite seo, and yeah, the landing page wasn't great and I basically had, as you know, you want to give give people a glimpse of what's actually in the course. So you've got your different modules and this was two text blocks, so it's basically bold text for the module name and a paragraph underneath the module repeated that and then another column repeating it again, and it just didn't quite line up correctly and it was a bit of a wall of text and I got so fed up with trying to find the right elemental widget to try and design this properly. And even if I did, it would take forever to copy and paste everything into boxes. So it was a pure experiment. Let's copy this into claude, make this look really good in a way that I can paste back into html block. And it did it really well. Paste it in.
Speaker 1:Not only does it really nice layout, it's on brand, it's color, it's got the right colors and fonts, because that's all in the html. But even when I hover over it, each one would have little animation and drop shadows and things like that. So it did a fantastic job better than I ever could. I studied history of art and I like to paint. I am terrible at web design, despite being all about websites.
Speaker 2:Wow okay, I'm gonna have to follow up with you after this to try and get a loom video showing this process, because this sounds fantastic it's actually already on my youtube channel, is it okay? Well, let's promote that then. What's the name of the video? Do you know?
Speaker 1:I've done about three this week on the on the topic. If you put in facebook ads, seo jesus, you'll probably find one of those videos, because obviously you know all about the, the paid ebook funnel where you have your seven dollar ebook. What I've been doing lately is basically packaging up, taking all my transcripts, turning that into an ebook with claude can be 10 to 20 000 words long and thanks to chat gpt's new image update, I can instantly get a really good mock-up of that book because, as most of your audience will know, even if it's a digital product, you want a physical mock-up that makes it look like an actual thing you own. So very quickly create that mock-up. That then goes into my elemental page. I then get clawed to knock out the sales page really quickly. So I've already got really good ebook with ai, trained on my own data, which has therefore informed a really good, accurate sales page that's entirely based on the training data. So we've got the landing page and the product in no time. Then go back into ChatGPT and now we can create loads of Facebook ads, all kinds of different variations on that original product.
Speaker 1:So just last week, in less than a day, I wrote the link building Bible by SEO. Jesus did the mock-up, did the sales page and then just started creating loads of ad variations I created. The one of the top performing ones is an seo jesus action figure. The second best one I called hustle bro jesus, which is basically all ai, but it's me in dubai next to a lamborghini holding the link building bible like the ultimate guru. But that ad's got a 20 click-through rate. Oh my god, really yeah, so it's all stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we don't. We. We don't think ai is the answer to everything, but I've already done the work. I've already done archives of content yeah, so I'm packaging that into a book, creating really nice designs and sales pages around that book and then creating hundreds of ad creatives to try and find that ultimate golden nugget ad creative that I would have never have come up with. Just hustling away with canva.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah okay, so it used to take going back to our original question, because that was fascinating it used to take you half an hour to an hour to do the landing page with this new method. How long is it taking?
Speaker 1:you I'd probably say 10 minutes. None of this. I really time myself and I think generally most of us underestimate how long things really take. But the new method it's, it's really killer.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, one of the things we find is that most landing pages, if they are with clicks from YouTube or Instagram or something like that, will have a very high conversion rate normally about 70, whereas a regular landing page from website traffic might be 30 to 40. From facebook ads might be like 20 to 30, something like that. I'd be really curious to see how much difference does it make you having this like unbelievably good landing page versus if you just had something super straightforward, super simple. Now that you've got your system and it only takes 10 minutes, it doesn't matter anymore. Exactly, I was chatting with Jack Kowalski in a previous episode and he's doing everything in Kajabi and he's getting I think about, on a lot of his videos, about four percent opt-in rate and I'm really curious, like, how much of it is about getting the click from youtube? How much of it is about getting the improving the opt-in rate on the, the opt-in page? Where is the? Where is the difference on that one?
Speaker 1:that's fascinating it's still mostly about, yeah, how you personally in the videos sell the product, even if a lot of people just say, by the way, I've got this free resource. No one cares about that is, what do they actually get out of it? Yeah, why is this a shortcut? Ideally, in your video, you actually want to create some kind of information gap that means they really have to actually download that to complete the puzzle, which feels unethical. But ultimately it's just an email address. You're not actually charging them for it and no, in my case, the only reason I'm taking it up a level now I've not remeasured the actual opt-in rates from that at that level in terms of the landing pages. But for me, obviously you don't want to just stay with youtube organic. Ideally, we all dream of the ultimate set and forget ad funnel. So if I've got a top performing lead magnet on on youtube where it's getting opt-ins at that really high rate, then of course I want to run some paid traffic to it. And have you started doing that?
Speaker 2:just last week with the link building bible. Okay, oh, yes, you were just mentioned about the ads. Okay, cool. So you've been building up the youtube audience. You've been building up your email list. You're getting about 500 opt-ins per month onto your email list. What size is your total email list at now?
Speaker 1:so the overall figure when I log in is about 5 000, but then, yeah, if I actually go and through, you know, tick through, engage subscribers.
Speaker 2:That's the kind of thing the average email goes out to around nearly 4 000 gotcha okay now there's a lot of people listening who have got youtube channels doing higher numbers of views and you've got bigger email lists who I talk to regularly, who I don't think are doing the kind of numbers that you're doing with some of your promotions thank god for that I'm doing something right, so I would love to really dig into this.
Speaker 2:I think this is fascinating. Talk to me about what's been your best performing promotion that you've done so far. So that would be one page website, okay, and what was the revenue you got when you launched that?
Speaker 1:that was. So. The initial course launch was around I think 20 25 000, okay, but then whenever I do a launch, I've got my mastermind membership community. It's around a thousand for the year and the idea of that is it's a group chat with me on slack and we'll have regular calls. I change the actual pacing so it varies between sometimes it's once a week, but more lately we stretched out a bit to go deeper with more questions on a less regular basis.
Speaker 1:But the point is, if you get that, you unlock all my courses. So the idea is we'll have these sort of flagship courses where we'll do a launch every couple of months. But the point is, if you get the mastermind membership, you unlock all of them whenever you sign up. So it creates an element of scarcity, an element of gamification. So, with one page websites and this was the first experiment we tried this, but we ran the course launch and that was black friday, but then the week after course is closed. You can't get it anymore. However, we've just opened up the mastermind community where you can get access to all the courses plus, you know, good face time with me and the group chat for instant support with me. And yeah, it's a higher ticket price, but actually it's only twice the cost of one course, so it's kind of a no-brainer so you is that you did that as part of the black friday promotion.
Speaker 2:You had black friday promotion of the course and then a week later you did the promotion of the mastermind, correct? So, to answer your question, it all came to around 40 grand 40 000 fantastic. Okay, you're doing something really interesting with wait lists. Now I know that other people have got wait lists, but I feel like you're doing something cleverer or something different, because the numbers that you you manage with this. So can you talk me through how's that worked? What was that done? How were you able to get that 20 000 in original sales and, like, what were you doing with wait lists to help with that?
Speaker 1:yeah, so it was purely experimental. Now I knew I wanted to move more into courses, but of course I think so many of us when we start there's that imposter syndrome. Do I actually have anything desirable? Do I have anything worthwhile? And in my case, actually last summer I went into a real slump where I said the market went quiet in March, f quiet in March. It felt like SEO was kind of on a downward spiral and we've got the rise of AI.
Speaker 1:Very difficult to really pick a business at the moment because the pace of change is just so quick and I think most of us at the Rockface are overthinking it. Because you come into central London, there's still loads of people commuting every day to go to an office to check their emails seven hours a day. They're doing very good jobs, valuable work, but they don't really need to be at the office at that time. And yet corporate inefficiency means we're all still doing the same stuff we were 10, 20 years ago. So I don't think we're going to be replaced tomorrow, but I was in this real slump, okay, and I basically had to just turn around and think what's working right now.
Speaker 1:Now I had a few projects where we're basically using what's called exact match domains. The keyword is in the domain. Now again, technically, google said this doesn't work 10 years ago and they patched it up. They said it was a tactic we do not approve of. Then why is it that I'm making around two grand a month with this process? Simple website, exact match domain, put chat, gpt, ai content on it and six months later you've got a lead generation website delivering you commission so would this be something like carpetcleaningwatfordcom?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just did a couple of case studies on that and just as an experiment, I said I am going to be doing a course on this, so sign up in the link below if you're interested. And what I said was, again, you need to really incentivize. I said we're going to be giving away a limited number of free spots, so 10 free places as a lottery, but you've got to be on the list, obviously to to get that okay, and so that was effectively your lead magnet that you promoted directly in the video.
Speaker 2:Whenever you do a video about one page website exactly okay.
Speaker 1:So that was the first experiment. That video got 5 000 views and opt-in rate was pretty good. So it's probably about 250 sign up or something like that. So so over the next month or two, I kept. I say now I tend to focus more on pillars of content, so I'd revisit it. Here's another website following this process. Or here's not my website, but another website that's an exact match domain that's doing really well with the same kind of model, and it basically got to, I think mid-October when I was just looking at ActiveCampaign, just looking at active campaign. That email this has got 600 people on it. Maybe I should actually record that course now. As the month was progressing, I thought, wait, it's black friday very soon and of course, there's a lot of businesses out there. They make most of their revenue on black friday.
Speaker 2:So I thought if you've done a course at this point. Was this your first course or had you done?
Speaker 1:it was my first full course. I've done a, I've done a mini course before, okay, and but that was only 50 got it okay, cool, sorry, I interrupted.
Speaker 1:Carry on so yeah, there's a lot of liquidity around black friday and I thought if you don't launch then you're going to miss out on a big opportunity. So, locked in two weeks, sat down, did all the videos, blasted through it and, yeah, eventually I thought is this as good as it can be? I got into the perfectionism. But all you really need to do is just record a video at the beginning saying it's work in progress. You've got the early bird price. It's lifetime access. We're going to keep on adding and improving it. If there's anything you want to know, reach out via email and we'll record that unit for you. Nice, okay.
Speaker 2:So you had videos that are about this one particular topic, one word or exact match domains. Every time you have one of those videos and you do those every so often. You do that kind of regularly you would link. You'd say we're going to have a course about this with 10 free spots. Join the waitlist. That got you 600 odd people onto the waitlist and 10 of them bought. 10 of them bought. Now that's very high as a percentage of an email list. Of course it is a waitlist for that particular course, but still and the.
Speaker 1:The actual launch was staggered. So do be careful with the free spots thing, because so many people reached out angry saying I joined the list, I thought I got a free spot. No, listen to what I actually said in the video. There's going to be a limited number of free spots and so, yeah, I set up the page in Thrivecart with the pricing. I said 10 page in thrive cart with the pricing 10 free spots, that's your lot. I even had to.
Speaker 1:I had to segment the list because I thought it's not fair. There's 600 people on this list. Some will have subscribed two months ago and they've been waiting. They're a higher priority than the people have only just signed up and just happen to be online when the email goes out. So I just split it in half and had, you know, the sort of mid-september backwards and then post mid-september, and so there's a priority there in terms of if you signed up in the first video, then you did have a higher chance of actually getting a free place.
Speaker 1:But even then, then we have an early bird space. So then it went up to I think it was 247 or something like that, might even be 197, and it's all just playing with urgency and scarcity. So it was 10 free places, 40, I think, of the early bird spots. Then we went up to the full 497 and you really saw the drop off with the with the 497. But of course you're anchoring the price. So had I just said there's three spots and then it's 197, we probably wouldn't have sold the 40 197s.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, okay, nice. Did you also promote that course then to your whole email list as well?
Speaker 1:yeah, so first it went to this vip, the pre-signups, yeah and. But yeah, as I've, as I've scaled this method, the idea for me, I'm trying to do a course a month. I'm not succeeding at that, but the idea is, let's do a course a month, let's get that 40 grand a month.
Speaker 2:Create a course every month? Yeah, okay, and you know, at some point you can resell the ones from before exactly yeah, and but with that, therefore, we've got.
Speaker 1:We've got a full promotional calendar, if you like. So every video I promote should have at least a lead magnet. Ideally, that lead magnet should be leading towards the course gotcha. So because that whenever a course goes live, as I go through ticking off the different lists, it would be everyone who signed up for this course, because, of course, they're also going to be interested in this course as well, are you setting up, then, these wait lists for other videos that you're creating?
Speaker 1:it's a mix, so as soon as I get the idea of doing a course, yeah, then I'll start promoting that as a lead magnet, as a pre-launch sign up so the lead magnet is you're in the wait list and have a chance of one of these 10 free spots exactly the the issue with that is. Well, I say it's an issue, no, it's an opportunity.
Speaker 2:You find out very quickly what the duds are okay, I'm not going to bother making this course because nobody even bothered signing up to the waitlist.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and it feels a bit dubious, but it's a free product it's. I'm not obliged to actually deliver a course if all you've done is given me your email address.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, yeah, august, there was a big google update, so I did a couple of videos on it and I said I'm going to be doing a course on the, the google update doctor. Basically, every time there's an update, what are the diagnostic tests I do to work out what's changed and how do we adapt? And this is not just for this update, this is for every google update, as I do, comparing before and after what's changed. 50 people signed up for that course, so I've not recorded that, not recorded that one, yeah but they're not unsubscribed either so they're still interested.
Speaker 2:Do you have a number in mind of like it has to reach this? This many people? You know you have to be this tall to write. Get on this right thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all a numbers game. So if you think one page website, it's converted at 10. So, okay, 600 people signed up. Therefore I sold 60 places. So it still takes a lot of time and work to actually produce a course and in my market certainly there's a lot of price sensitivity once you go above 200. If it's below 200, they'll buy it all day long and unfortunately in the seo world we do tend to be quite price sensitive because we got into this, because we like the idea of free traffic, so it's not like your. You know how to get business coaching where you sign up 10k for a 90-day program. It's much more of give me the, the 200 course that answers a specific technique or question and they'll buy that all day long. So on that basis, yeah, if 100 people are signed up, 10 percent buy. Then you've made two thousand dollars from that course. So not really worth my while. Uh, yeah, as soon as it's like three or four hundred have signed up, then we're getting into.
Speaker 2:Let's see what's that five figures basically yeah, because if it's 400 people and 10% bought, that's 40, which is like eight thousand dollars. Okay, so that's interesting. So if you want to make ten thousand dollars might need five, five hundred people on the yeah, and that number can go up. Or you could go right wait a minute. This course wait list is going up fast. I'm going to make that course, first yep, and then I might that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1:So it was, yeah, mid-august I said I'm going to do the google update doctor. End of august I did one page websites. It's okay. Well, 200 people want one page websites. It's okay. Well, 200 people want one page websites. 50 people want Google update doctor and it's all. It's all cyclical, because not only does the the course signup get more attention, but the videos do better as well. So here's how I made five grand a month with a one page website that gets 5,000 views a video. Here's what happened in the latest to Google update that only got 500 views on the video. So you kind of stopped promoting because no one's really listening anyway, yeah, yeah, it's very much of 80 20 compounding situation nice.
Speaker 2:Okay, how do you see yourself going with this in future? Is there like, okay, I think once I've got to these whatever six courses that have done well, I'll just won't make any more courses, or do you think it'll be like still trying to keep making more?
Speaker 1:yeah, keep, keep going. So in my case, I share the same frustration as everyone in my industry of why does SEO have to change so drastically every six months. But it was actually a mutual friend of ours who pointed out that surely that's an advantage, because therefore, your job becomes working out what's changed and educating people on what's changed. So someone who bought a course a year ago is probably going to buy your course in a year's time to work out what the changes are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I wouldn't give people lifetime updates no, I'm serious and that kind of thing like maybe you don't charge them full price for the next course, but they they pay whatever 50 to get the upgraded version of it. Think about how software used to work right. So software nowadays is all you pay per month right, but it used to be.
Speaker 2:You would buy this version 1.0 of the software. That did not get you version 2.0, but it might well get you a discount on it. Very true, and I think what you're teaching needs updating every year, so you have to update the course. The people who are most likely to buy are the ones who bought the course last year that's a good point.
Speaker 1:People who better buy while they've still got lifetime access. That'll be. That'll be my next scarcity launch.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, yeah, I don't. Um, I don't think lifetime access is like a requirement. You know you can have lifetime access to this course, but version 2.0 you don't get access to, because you were saying earlier right about having you know if if there's anything you're unhappy about with the course, then we'll be updating it and whatever. Like, you can get all the updates. You get the 1.1 update, the 1.2 update, but you don't get the 2.0 update included in your original budget yeah, I mean we do sort of chop and change and mix and match anyway.
Speaker 1:So with one page websites, within that there's a unit on how you actually find the expired domains, which is a process I came up with and I thought this is such a valuable technique. I don't think it's worth necessarily a 200 course, but it's a fantastic 50 mini course and the way I I always see the course is certainly is it's not about making money on the course itself, that's just the trip wire to get people into the funnel and then with your order but with your upsell, that's actually really where a lot of money is made and ultimately I'm trying to upsell people into the mastermind community. So the more offers I can make just to get people into the funnel over the line, just to give them the chance of then upselling into the mastermind membership, that's all I really care about.
Speaker 2:Like I said, one page websites, 20 grand up front great, but we actually made another 20 grand with the mastermind membership and then we had some people who had bought the original course or was that also from people who had were just on the email list and hadn't bought the course at all point.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it was a mix. So even in the the initial course launch we actually had, we had an order bump and two upsells. One was basically a spreadsheet. So we're going out finding all these link building partners all the time. So we included a list of our most frequently used link building partners, basically saying agencies are charging $400 for these links. Here's how much we've negotiated the wholesale rate from the actual providers so you can just reach out to them directly and get yourself a $400 link for $100. And so I think we call that the ultimate guest post directory.
Speaker 2:And that was done as an order bump or an upsell. That was the upsell.
Speaker 1:Okay, the order bump was very similar. Again, it was a list of potential websites. So it was a $50 order bump, then a $200 upsell and then the next upsell was in the mastermind membership. Now, the thing with the mastermind membership I'm just looking to get that sort of six hundred to a thousand dollars for the year. If you've already given me three hundred dollars for a course, then I don't mind taking three hundred dollars off the mastermind membership because you're getting that course anyway thrown in. So when you're in that funnel it actually looks like a really good one-time offer. And because yeah was a thousand dollars, now it's only six hundred dollars because you bought the course. The end figure is the same to me whether you bought the course and upsold or just went direct to the mastermind membership. Yeah, but it becomes a much better package that way.
Speaker 2:Okay, so are you still keeping the agency? Or are you like ah, I'm not too fussed about that, my focus is all on courses. Or is it like, like, how are you thinking about this now? So I've not answered that question yet, and very much thinking about it, you mean you've not answered it in your own, in your own head? Yes, right, okay got it?
Speaker 1:uh, no, still got some really good vip clients who pay us every month, but we've also got a lot of not vip clients who are. I dug myself a hole now, haven't I? No, it's all about qualification, so some clients end up being fantastic, others really aren't. Whereas unrealistic expectations. Anyone who's run a service business, you know the drill.
Speaker 1:You can do the best job in the world and they're still not happy. And so, yeah, I do look at my overall revenue and think, okay, I'm making more money with the agency, but the headache is massive. Versus the courses, yeah, it's less money but it's more profit and less headache. But what you ultimately realize is I'm always going to be attracting clients anyway because I'm doing the YouTube stuff and even within the courses, there's always going to be that minority that then say I need this particular aspect or this particular service. So I think the direction we're going in increasingly is much more productized.
Speaker 1:So I tried to start a productized service in the beginning, then found most of my clients were unqualified for productized they needed much more of a full service, whereas now I'm doing these courses where I'm saying you need this content, you need these backlinks, you need this process. It becomes a very natural well upsell, basically to then have within module. If you want, we can do it for you for $500 a month. So increasingly we're going much more towards that direction, I think, where we're selling a higher volume of lower ticket services to a greater number of people and if they've come through a course, then they're going to be more qualified, more trusting, more trusting. It's less of the signing someone up for two, three grand a month and then within three months they're then pushing back saying you know, I'm not getting wild miracle results yet yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2:I follow pretty much the same thing. So we sell low ticket courses and then we have a group coaching program, which is more expensive, and then we have one-to-one coaching, which is more expensive, and then we have done for you, which is more expensive, and a certain number of people who you attract for each level will want the next, actually want the next level up. You know a much smaller number of people are willing to pay at least for done for you. Probably everybody wants it, you know. But a much smaller percentage of people are willing to pay for it and can afford it. But you actually get all of the money out of the potential audience by having stuff at different price points. Um, trying to remember the name of it.
Speaker 2:So perry marshall talked about this quite a lot. He calls it in his book the coffee, the starbucks coffee machine effect, something like this. So he's talking about how starbucks sells coffee for whatever I don't know five pounds or five bucks or I don't know some ridiculous amount of money for a coffee, but it's relatively cheap. And then they'll also sell you the coffee machine for two thousand dollars and they've got all the kind of staggered layers in between. If you go to a to watch a sporting event. You can just buy the cheapest seat for whatever 50 quid, or you can get a box for 10,000 pounds, and there's always these different kind of levels to it, and I think having that allows you to make as much money as you can from this one business, and I think it's one of the things.
Speaker 2:Actually I bang on about this a lot. Listeners are probably maybe getting sick of hearing me saying this or maybe they're starting to realize how much money they could make. Most course creators just sell, and they just sell $100, $200 courses and they don't have any of those other things. They don't have group coaching programs and they don't have one-to-one coaching at all, and if they had that with their same-sized audience, they could probably double their revenue by just adding the group coaching part in maybe more. And so you've got that right. With your mastermind, you've got the $1,000 a year from each of those mastermind members, which is then you made as much from that as you did from the the courses itself yes, there's two parts to that answer.
Speaker 1:Basically, one is that, in terms of the efficiency of monetizing your audience, in the early days people were saying to me do you really get high ticket clients from youtube? And I'm saying, yes, look at my agency dashboard and I've got some really baller clients talking 20, 25k a month from it. But what I wasn't realizing was just how much revenue I was leaving on the table, because most of my audience were much more hands-on, diy, do-it-themselves, not a huge budget. So as soon as I come along with that $200 course, everyone buys it and that's comparable to the money I was making with the agency side. So, yeah, kicking myself, basically I didn't have lower ticket offers earlier on at that point and but equally, yeah much, even on the sort of info product side, still plenty more ceiling to go because I've got the mastermind membership. But even then it's a grand for the year, which is still not particularly high ticket.
Speaker 1:So I'm working with a few people at the moment to basically develop, as you say, the group coaching program and much more in the sort of biz op style of I've built this 60 grand a month agency. How many people want to build a 60 grand a month agency and how many problems have I solved along the way in terms of hiring, operations and sales funnels. So all that can be packaged into the 5k program or 10k program and, to your point, it might only be five people from your list that are qualified to actually take that, but if you've got a list of 5 000 people, you'll probably find those five people yeah, and then that gives you almost as much revenue again.
Speaker 2:The third, the third tier. Like you can't have a tier every every 200 pounds or something like this, but you can have the 100 pound course, the thousand pound membership, the 10 000 pound um a year group coaching program and the whatever you said, you know 10 or 20 grand a month done for you.
Speaker 1:So I had a lot of hesitation around charging that kind of money for aspect for my audience who, like I say, we tend to be lower ticket. But even then you actually think about it. So you think that's one client to someone if they can sign up because of you, if they get one more client at two, three grand a month, that more than pays for the program. Yeah, oh, that's right. Yeah, you end up with the, the super fans who buy everything, and it's actually really annoying.
Speaker 1:It's everything you've ever been taught about 80, 20 and the easiest people to sell to your existing clients. And it's so true that I'll email my list with another offer, whether it's a course or a service, and you see the money come in. You think great. And then you go and check who's actually bought and it's all. It's all the same people. Every time you think this isn't actually what I wanted. I wanted more volume. But okay, if this is, this is how most businesses work, you have a smaller number of people who end up just buying everything you sell yeah, when we've tracked it before by looking at previous buyers and non-buyers.
Speaker 2:And then where do we get the sales from? On another course, for clients it's somewhere around 20 times more likely. A previous buyer is about 20 times more likely to buy than a non-buyer. So if you had an email, if you had two separate email lists the previous buyers and the non-buyers and the previous buyers was 1,000 and the non-buyers was 20,000 people then you'd make about as much sales to each of them, something like that. It's not a hard and fast rule, but that's like when we've looked at it, that was the kind of number it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's huge and we're trying to do a lot more of that, partly because obviously many of us hesitate over the send button. We're thinking we don't want to be too promotional to our list. The reality is, if you are too promotional to your list then you make a lot more money, but even then you don't want to sell too hard on youtube. You don't want to sell too hard by email because there's that fear that you're going to get a bad reputation, people complaining. But if you segment the buyer, the actual qualified buyers, off, they don't actually mind being sold to. So you get to this point where you're actually marketing far more to the actual buyers, whereas the people who signed up for a free lead magnet and aren't really buying from you they're not being disturbed with all these emails so actually, you end up with a much cleaner image.
Speaker 1:That's more profitable because you don't have a load of people complaining, but the people who are buying from you.
Speaker 2:You're selling a lot more to yeah, one of the things that we do is we will have a link in every single a line with a link in every single email that's got a promotion going on, saying if you're not interested in this product, click here and you won't hear from us again about this, but you'll stay on the email list and then next time you know, next month that person then can hear about some other product, or, and they can get all the free emails in between and they get to just, yeah, that's fine, you can just get our free content and maybe at some point you'll buy. You don't have to get irritated by it and you don't have to unsubscribe.
Speaker 2:It's not like you know one or the other yeah, that's been really good for us in terms of um and for our clients in terms of how do you make sure it's because everybody worries about that? Right, it's that, it's that fear that everybody has and it's like, whether it's valid or not, right, people still have that discomfort and they worry and they don't want to get that email saying, oh, you're selling out, you're selling too much, it's really annoying. So it's like, all right, cool, well, just click this button and that's fine, and you won't hear about this. You'll only get the first email of every sequence and then you click the button and then that's fine, and then you get all the free content. Still, you can have as much as you like. And then if you buy in three years time, great, and if you don't, that's fine. You know, I pay my. Whatever. It is a penny a month per person or something. I forget what the number is. You know if I have them on your email list and you're absolutely right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've been told for years grow an email list and make sure you actually email them. And I'm then telling people grow an email list and make sure you actually email them. But in february this year I'd had yeah, we did 40k in across sort of november. December did another 20k in january with another course launch february. I got cold feet, I didn't send any money and I made three grand in february.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's, there's a logic here that I'm not quite following. So, yeah, took some advice and what we're doing now actually is we're doing a launch per month and that's a big flagship launch, whether it's a new course, old course. But the kind of experiment we're running in the meantime is every day now I'm sending him, say, a marketing email. It's technically a value add email, but it contains the classic, the subtle ps at the bottom and that could be to a service, it could be an affiliate link, it could be to an old course, and all that's done is just completely remove all the all that imposter syndrome I had because I send one of those emails and that's to a list of around 4 000 people on average.
Speaker 1:Let me try and remember the numbers. I think the unsubscribe rate is 0.3. Okay, and that's for a bad email. A good email it's not. It can be more like 0.2 0.15. So basically we'll send an email to that many people. We'll lose maybe five to ten subscribers who probably weren't going to buy anything from us anyway. And I'll give you the example one last night. I promoted a service last night and we made a grand from one email.
Speaker 1:Wow yeah and this is this is not a marketing email, it's not a pitch email, it's not the high pressure launch sequence. This was just, by the way. Here's a really interesting thing I learned Also PS, we can do it for you. So really getting into that habit now. So had that habit before doing a YouTube video every day. Nowadays I'm far more about that efficiency and conversion and monetization. So an email every day, a launch every month, and it's going well so far, but partly just to get over that psychology of it is fine to hit send it definitely, definitely is.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of it's um. One of the things I say to people very often is that we'll do an audit of their business and we'll say, oh, what's, what's this spike in revenue that you've got here? Like oh it's an email promotion, oh interesting okay, and why did this other fight? Here there's an email promotion.
Speaker 2:Oh interesting, have you considered doing more email promotions? And it's like, oh no, I don't like that idea. It's like, no, we've got to get past this, honestly. We've. You've got to have an email promotion going out every single month and then I, like you, know your idea going have something going out every single day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's amazing when you actually look at the chart, because so when the agency is doing, most agencies only really make a 20 profit margin I think ours was a bit better than that.
Speaker 1:But even the way I was thinking was it was if we average 50k a month, we're probably keeping maybe 20k a month, something like that. And then I look at, I look in thrive cart, I look at our core sales and november we did 20k. Bear in mind, in thrive cart, revenue basically equals profit. We're talking very high margin. So november 20k, december 20k. In february, like I said, 3k, march 20k. No, I think that's my accountability when I look back and think you missed out on 17 grand of revenue, of profit.
Speaker 2:Actually which is actually quite difficult to you. Can't get that back. You can't do two promotions in march to make up for not doing one in February.
Speaker 1:And just turn it around. Like I say it's a smaller number. But when you think how much agency revenue would you have to make to get that level of profit? If you're talking about the 20% margin, then the 20K course month is equivalent to 100K agency month. So if you meet an agency owner and they say they're doing 100K a month, you know that's a pretty good agency Course. They say they're doing 100k a month, you know that's a pretty good agency course business 20k a month profit, same effect, a lot less work and only if I keep sending the emails and is it just you from the course side?
Speaker 2:have you got anybody else from your agency business who's doing a bit of work on the course? A bit of that, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:So we've got this account management side on on the agency side, because I built a big personal brand on youtube. There's always emails coming in, people asking questions about videos, things like that. It's not a normal agency where we've got a few clients paying 10 grand a month and yet an account manager assigned to each of them. We do have much more there, basically a ticketing system where we get everything coming into one inbox and I've got a heroic account manager who not only serves the clients but deals with a lot of that almost like a sort of receptionist, if you like. So the sop is quite simple. Anyone's got a problem with the course?
Speaker 1:just refund them and move on and that's pretty much it. Occasionally we get a few questions about. People like to go back and forth. What's in the course? Can I do this? Can I do that? Chances are if you're. If you're questioning that much about 200 purchase, then it's probably not right for you anyway. So interesting.
Speaker 2:What else has been working for you? What else can you kind of pass on in terms of tips to anybody?
Speaker 1:so don't be afraid of I say product creation. So I think step one this is my big, my big obsession at the moment take all your content, turn it. Go into claude and say take all this training data, start writing chapter one of my ebook on this, now write chapter two, now write chapter three. If you do that, you end up with a 10 to 20 000 word ebook in no time. I made one this morning on reddit marketing and it's 15 000 words long. And then go into chat, gpt, generate the mock-up and generate the cover, put it on amazon, put on kindle, so you can prove it's a real product. But then set up that sales funnel, like I talked about going to claude. Generate that really nice landing page based on top performing info products.
Speaker 1:But by the same token this is what you've always said always have an order bump, because you know 30 of people are going to take it anyway and you always want one upsell.
Speaker 1:I only recently found out you actually want two to three upsells because, basically, why not?
Speaker 1:Don't get too stuck in your head about actually creating those products, because I've literally got to the final hours before launching a course and thought I don't have an order bump yet I've got to think about what could, what could I possibly deliver as a value, and all this is some extra resource.
Speaker 1:I love the story about Rolls-Royce, how they stopped exhibiting at car shows and instead started exhibiting at yacht shows, because if you're buying a 20 million pound yacht then a Rolls-Royce is actually cheap by comparison. So it's like, yeah, I'll go for a Rolls-Royce, why not? Because I'm buying a 20 million pound yacht and with the order bumps it's the same thing. So I feel quite guilty when I say I've made so much money just from selling spreadsheets, but the information that spreadsheet is gold. If I'd had that two years ago, that would have been genuinely valuable. But you're thinking really. You're charging 50, 100, 200 for a spreadsheet, but you look at the numbers most people ticket, they say yes, and the refunds are just not happening we had a um order bump the other day with a 91 uptake on it.
Speaker 2:Nice, which is for anybody listening. Who who doesn't know about this. It's normally 20 to 50 percent of people will take the order bump, and the order bump is the additional product that you sell on the checkout page. So it's not um, it's, it's not got its own sales page, it's got two or three paragraphs absolute most about it, and so when 91 of people get it, it's just like okay, this is, this is obviously fantastic. So now what we're going to do is go back and look at that and go okay, what did we do? Why did 91 people get that one? Can we do that again? And everything else. How can we increase the conversion rates?
Speaker 1:So in my case it's just that. It's just that iteration. You can always change it. But previously I was putting order bumps, thinking things like you can have a half hour consultation call with me and again I'm hesitating over the send button because I think what's the best case scenario? Here it works and everyone buys it, and then I'm stuck on calls all day. That kind of eats away that whole 90% margin we were talking about. So right, get rid of that. What else can I do? Well, if they're getting this course, we've got all those transcripts, or you've written the e-book, something like that. Well, go back into Claude and say give me the checklist or give me the SOP document that you can give to your team. It's just got to be. It doesn't have to be revolutionary, it's just something that makes things slightly easier for someone.
Speaker 1:Just a little nugget of value, because if you're selling this $200, $300 course, do you want something for an extra $50 that might help make your life better and if you don't like it, we'll give you your money back? Yeah, most people tend to tick it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Nice, all right. If somebody wants to go check out your YouTube channel maybe they're even interested in SEO services where can they go? Find you SEOJesuscom, and we rank quite well for SEO Jesus, seojesuscom. And if you go to YouTube and just search for SEO Jesus, you're going to come up with some very bold thumbnails showing Jesus working on SEO in some number of different ways, with different kind of exaggerated expressions.
Speaker 1:Yep, and certainly for your audience as well. That whole process. I talked about creating the ebook, turning that into an instant AI sales page in five minutes. I've done a book of that process using the process open case study and it's called the 30-minute infopreneur. So if you search SEO Jesus on YouTube, I've done three videos this week on that topic, whether it's facebook ads, whether it's creating the landing pages, and yeah, if you sign up for that download, then I'll keep you updated with this new process.
Speaker 1:How quickly can you build an info product funnel? So my challenge for the next week or two, basically that idea of having the, the seven dollar ebook that grows your email list for free via facebook ads. I'm basically saying let's do that every day. Take your transcripts, create the ebook, create the mock-up, create the sales page, create the facebook ads with 20 different variations and and run that offer and then within a few weeks, we should work out okay, this ebook is crushing it, everyone wants it and 80 20 most of them are going to be duds, but these ones, they're killing it. So if you're interested in that process, 30 minute infopreneur and, yeah, just a free sign up nice, fantastic.
Speaker 2:Stuart, thanks so much for coming on. Really really appreciate your time and sharing your wisdom with the audience my pleasure, thank you.