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The Art of Selling Online Courses
The Art of Selling Online Courses is all about online courses.
The goal of this podcast is to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. We are interviewing successful business owners, asking them questions on how they got to the point where they are right now, and checking how their ideas can help you improve your online course!
The Art of Selling Online Courses
From $5K to $15K/Month (Live Funnel Teardown)
🔗 Want a free funnel review Mimi's? Email me at john@datadrivenmarketing.co with "free funnel review" in the subject line.
In this episode, I tear apart Mimi's funnel live - she's a sensuality coach making $5K monthly aiming for $15K. We uncovered why her 157K Instagram followers only generate 240 monthly email subscribers, and how switching from two-step to one-step opt-ins could instantly double her list growth. Her current tripwire funnel makes $775/month but could hit $6K with proper implementation.
You'll see exactly how I identify revenue leaks, calculate potential gains, and create a roadmap to potentially triple monthly income without growing audience size. This raw, unfiltered teardown shows how minor funnel adjustments can unlock massive revenue that's already sitting in your business.
🔗 Check out Mimi's work: https://www.mimimidnight.com/
How do I know if they don't buy that? Do you think that would take people away from doing the high ticket offer? Should I sell that as like a course or should I just stick to the live coaching part?
Speaker 2:It increases the number of subscribers. You get by about double. That's where the bulk of the money is in your email list.
Speaker 1:Is there a quick way to find it? Okay, and so I should do that like a week before the high ticket offer closes.
Speaker 2:It might seem like madness, it's like. That's just how it is, okay. So the first thing that we want to do is look at how much you're making at the moment and where you want to get to. So let's start with that. So let's show up All right, yeah, okay. So you currently make 5k a month and you want to get to about 15k a month Great, all 5k a month. And you want to get to about 15k a month great, all right, cool. So can you talk us through who it is that you are helping and what you help them with?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I help women who get caught up in their head with, like overthinking, self-doubt, self-consciousness, and they can't be present in their body, and so what I do is I help them reconnect with their sensuality so that they can be more present in their body and get out of their head.
Speaker 2:How much of that is through online courses? How much of that is through coaching? Is any of it in person? How does it all work?
Speaker 1:Some self-paced, like pre-recorded courses, and then my main thing is live online coaching, and then I also have some in-person stuff too. In-person is just like civil classes and then private client.
Speaker 2:Now what we want to start with is the amount of traffic that you're currently getting, and look at the actually scratch that. What we want to start with is the issues, and I basically see in these kinds of businesses three issues that come up every time, so I'm going to sketch this out. So the first one is email list being too small, and so what is your email list at the moment?
Speaker 1:3K.
Speaker 2:So let's jot that down 4,300. Is that still on the screen? Yeah, okay, just about Okay. So we're at 4,300. Second thing that I see as issues is not enough sales to the list. And then the third one and it'd be interesting to see with your business, because you've got the coaching in place is the revenue per sale being too low?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's not enough sales to list and the revenue per sale I think is probably my biggest problems. Per sale, I think is probably my biggest problems.
Speaker 2:The biggest ones. All right, cool. So let's, we're going to start off with the opposite of each of these and what the fix of them is and, obviously, what we want. If the email list is too small, then we want to get the email list to be bigger Big email list, and then second one instead of not enough sales to list, loads of sales to the list. And instead of low revenue per sale, we want high. So revenue per sale. So let's start with the size of your list and then we'll kind of work our way through. So you're currently getting 240 new subscribers a month. 250 a month is 3,200 website visitors and 20,000, 21,000 subscribers on YouTube and 157,000 on Instagram, and you're getting 43,000 views a month on YouTube. So talk us through. How do you get those 203,000 subscribers? Where are you promoting lead magnets? Where is it all kind of set up?
Speaker 1:I think they're mostly coming from YouTube and Instagram, but Instagram is definitely the number one place they come from.
Speaker 2:Are you using ManyChat or are you just pointing people from the bio? How is it working for getting those subscribers?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I use ManyChat and I point them to my lead magnet.
Speaker 2:And how often. Like where do you do that? Do you do that in every video, every 10th video? Like how does that kind of work?
Speaker 1:I think I would say four out of five videos. I'm always doing like a many chat automation, whether it's to my lead magnet or to my wait list or to I'm doing a masterclass in two weeks, so it's to that.
Speaker 2:Is that a paid masterclass or free one? It's a free one, okay gotcha. So four out of five videos, you've got many chat to lead magnet Great Love that. So I'm going to jot down these numbers for your audience. So we've got YouTube 21,000. Instagram was 157,000. Site was 3,200. Instagram was 157,000. I was 3,200. Tiktok Do you find you get many people opting in from TikTok?
Speaker 1:You know, I don't know it's hard to track that one. Tiktok is hard because you can't use ManyChat for it and the links and bios are not that great. I have had people in surveys I've had like maybe one or two say they found me from TikTok, that have bought something. But I think the number's pretty close.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool. So we're going to do some. These are kind of ballpark back of the envelope sums on how many options you should be getting in from each of these, and then I'll drop these down on the wall. So we've got Instagram. We find something like about 0.5% of Instagram subscribers would normally go through an email list each month. So 157,000 times 0.5% would be 785. It's not a hard and fast rule, but that's the kind of ballpark. Youtube we're normally looking at about 2% of views and you're getting 43,000 views. So 2% of that it does vary. I've got clients who are getting 4% and I've got clients who are getting 1%, and it's not necessarily that the ones getting 4% are doing stuff that's better. It sometimes changes by niche. Generally, you can get mostly to about 2% on those ones. So that would be 860. And then website traffic you can normally get to about it's 2% to 5%. Let's say 3% to kind of be a bit towards the bottom end in terms of estimates. 3% there would be another 100. So that would be go on.
Speaker 1:I'm just thinking wow, so my numbers of email list leads per month is very low.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there's definite room for improvement there, plus 100. That should be about 1,700, and you're getting 240. Okay, so I'm going to jot that down on the wall. I'll put the total up, I think. Rather than each of those Website, actually, maybe I could do each of them 100. Rather than each of those Website, actually, maybe I could do each of them 100. Youtube, I'd say 860. Instagram, 785. And that gave us all right, so we've got 1,750.
Speaker 2:Now there's a couple of things that need to be in place for you to get those kind of numbers. One of the things is you've currently got a two-step opt-in. So I'm going to go to your site and just check this out. Here we go. So this is the central stretching opt-in, okay. And then that gives a promotion of some other newsletters, okay.
Speaker 2:And if I go to my email to check that out, okay, it's just downloading one new message. It says nothing's come in yet. Okay, if I go to my email to check that out, it's just downloading one new message. It says nothing's come in yet. Okay, I'm going to go back and check that in a minute. I want to see what comes through. But so you've got like a confirmation email when people first sign up, is that right? Yeah, okay, so the reason that these two-step opt the systems like ActiveCampaign and ConvertKit and this kind of thing, or promote them I've just got the email through from you for the confirmation. Ready to feel amazing in your own skin? Access your free lesson? Click here, okay, and if someone doesn't click that, then they don't get any more emails from you, is that right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I think that the clicking auto, well, I don't know actually because I don't know actually, because I don't know if they still send the emails to them even if they don't confirm their subscription. Okay, so it sounds like they might need to click on that. If they do, then you can probably double the number of subscribers you're getting every month just by fixing that, if they have to click that link to be on the list, because the reason this two-step opt-in process is set up by Kit and all the other systems is so that it improves deliverability and they don't want to have people on the lists who aren't who, which aren't real email addresses. About 50 of people, about 50 of uh, people who subscribe. Don't click that link it might seem like madness.
Speaker 2:It's just like. That's just how it is, because everyone gets. Everyone gets so many emails they sign up. Later on they go to their email. It's all kind of lost in this whole long feed. It's just you. They don't see it.
Speaker 2:Now, some of those people that's not real email addresses and some of them wouldn't have ever read any of your emails after that and that they wouldn't have been good subscribers. But some of them are. So when you set up a two-step opt-in sorry. When you set up. When you set up a two-step opt-in sorry. When you change from two-step to one-step, it increases the number of subscribers. You get by about double and it gives you about 20% more revenue from the tests that we've done on that. The downside is you then have these email addresses on your list which aren't good and people who don't open emails. So you have to run regular cleaning of the list and you have to run re-engagement campaigns. So that's a bit more work and that's the reason that Kit and whatever else don't set that up by default, because it's like they don't want to put all of that on you. But if you set those things up, then it means you can grow the list much faster, so that on its own, I'm just going to write this on the board.
Speaker 1:So is that basically just auto-confirming everyone who signs up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So everybody who signs up goes on the list. So I'm going to put that, put that on the board, and I'm going to put a red circle around that. So that should, on its own, about double your your number of opt-ins. It still means you've got more stuff to do around the cleaning it, but that's going to be great. Second one we want to have is that we want to make sure you've got a great lead magnet. Now I'm going to jot that one down next.
Speaker 2:So there's a number of things we're looking for in a great lead magnet. We want it to be so. First of all, you actually have lead magnets, which is great. Some people just have newsletters and that stinks and it doesn't convert well at all. You've got lead magnets Great.
Speaker 2:Now there's a few things that make a great lead magnet. We want it to be easy for people to use, like very quickly to get a benefit from. We want it to be high perceived value, high actual value, so that they they think it's going to be great and then, when they sign up, it actually is great. And then we want them to be able to get the use from it in as little time and effort as possible. The course or an ebook or something like this is actually a bunch of work for them to do. They then have to go read the thing, whereas, like some of our best performing lead magnets are ones like we have a client in the spirituality space and their free lead magnet was five free meditations. The clients, the prospects, are already meditating Well, a lot of them are, so this is then extra ones they can just listen to and as they're meditating, they go through this instead. So it's like it's not that much extra work for those people.
Speaker 2:We had a client in the digital painting space and he had digital paintbrushes, portrait paintbrushes as the lead magnet, so it was like a tool that someone just gets straight away and can use, rather than and they're already trying to do the portrait painting, but they just get these free tools and it makes it easier to do it instead of them having to, like, go. It's not taking a mini course or something like that. So we're going to try and have a little look. Talk me through what this lead magnet, your central stretching, is. Is it a little course? Is it? Yeah? How's it?
Speaker 1:I think that I have had a um, you're affirming this, inkling that I've had that. I think the lead magnet needs to be something different, because it's a video and even if it's like a 10 minute video, I think there's like a high barrier to actually doing it because they think, okay, I need to set aside time to do like a whole class and or like I need to be in the right space, I need to be wearing the workout clothes, all that kind of stuff. So, yeah, it is a. It's like a mini course in that you have to sign up for Thinkific and then you can access the video.
Speaker 2:Got it. So I'm going to give that like a halfway in between. I don't have an orange pen, so I'm going to use the blue as the middle one in between red and green and we're going to say that's a pretty good lead magnet. It's definitely good. It could be better Now it doesn't have to be perfect. Don't hold off doing anything else until this is done. Anything that's like halfway in between is like it's probably not the first thing to focus on.
Speaker 2:Next thing I'm going to go into your site and have a little look and see, because the next step is that the lead magnet is promoted everywhere on the site. That's like a really big deal, like not just promoted the bit, but like every lead magnet everywhere on site. So let's have a little look. I'm going to share screen. I'm going to have a little look through together. Oh, I've already seen you've got a pop-up. This is great. I think that's sharing, probably now. Yeah, okay, so you've got this pop-up. Excellent, that's one of the first things to have in place. I think we could improve the design of this a little bit, but as a starting point, this is great that you've got it. The second thing is then where else have you got it self-paced coaching that's taken me to a course. So generally in this kind of business all of the money comes from getting somebody on the list first. So really we want to see the lead magnet as the main call to action and you're kind of promoting the coaching as the top thing here.
Speaker 1:It's the next section, this one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it's the second thing down, which is good, but I think if we had the lead magnet at the top above the fold, that actually would be better overall.
Speaker 1:The lead magnet in the top nav. But you think I should actually put it.
Speaker 2:This one here, yeah, so this is less obvious, this having it in the top bar, than having it as the main call to action on the Like actually have it as a button. Yeah, have a button for it, like basically this section here that you've got, that is like promoting the lead magnet as the second section, that's effectively the top.
Speaker 1:you know, the top button I see, okay, so I should switch the two sections then yeah, and then when you click it it brings up the pop-up.
Speaker 2:That's great, that's really really good that you have it actually as a pop-up that comes when you click that button.
Speaker 1:I love that that was from you guys was it from us?
Speaker 2:us, okay, great, that converts better Before Nice. Okay, now I want to have a look at do you have like a blog, or where do you get the traffic into on your site? Just to the homepage.
Speaker 1:I think that mostly Instagram I don't get, I don't have a blog.
Speaker 2:Okay, then at the bottom you've got okay. So Instagram is driving traffic to the website. It's then driving traffic to these options.
Speaker 1:How useful is a blog? Because I'm not sure of my industry. People are actually reading about stuff.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, it depends, right, you need one. I'll stop showing screen. You need one or more traffic sources. It doesn't have to be SEO traffic. You've got traffic coming in through Instagram and YouTube. That's great. We don't need to then work on how do you increase the website traffic through SEO. So I wouldn't worry about that at all. It's like a whole nother skill set to learn and SEO is kind of on the decline a little bit with the increase of AI and Google answers and all this kind of thing. So that's not worth putting time into. Okay, so that's, we looked at. Where is it on the site? It's pretty good. You've got it as the second thing we're going to move it to. First. We've got the pop-up. That's great. At the bottom, you've actually got a newsletter promoted. I would replace that with another promotion of the lead magnet instead of a weekly newsletter at the bottom.
Speaker 1:Can I say that again?
Speaker 2:So let me share screen. I'll show you again. So if we have a look at the bottom, you've got the newsletter promoted here and if you replace that with another promotion of the lead magnet again or a different lead magnet, that will probably convert better. Probably about this bit would do about twice as well. The number of people you get from that I don't know, because that's like obviously less than what you'll get from the pop-up or the people at the top of the screen, but it's still worth doing. I'd say so. Next, let's go look at your Instagram. So which of these would have a promotion of the lead magnet in it?
Speaker 1:The first post, the first post yeah. Yeah, that one has my two like self-paced and then the live coaching.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, so this is promoting not the lead magnets but the, the coaching.
Speaker 1:yeah yes, yeah, sorry the coaching yeah, got.
Speaker 2:It, okay, what about this one? So nothing in this one right nothing in that one either free master class comment master class. I'll dm you the link to sign up. Brilliant, okay, cool, nice to work here. This is early bird registration. For what?
Speaker 1:that's my high ticket offer high ticket.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, that's the high ticket offer. Okay, so there's always promotion of something, but it's more pointing people to the high ticket offers, at least recently. Is that fair?
Speaker 1:yes, this one is the lead magnet lead magnet if I'm like in a period where I am not promoting my high ticket offer, then I usually do lead magnet, but then I also will promote my pre-recorded self-paced courses too.
Speaker 2:What proportion would you say is promoting high ticket offer, what percentage is promoting the self-paced courses and what percentage is the lead magnet?
Speaker 1:I would say like lead magnet is 30 percent um, and then pre-recorded course is probably like 30 percent and then high ticket is probably 20 percent and the other 20 percent is um other random stuff yeah, okay, cool, got it.
Speaker 2:So probably what's going to work out well for you longer term is to promote that lead the lead magnets more and grow the list faster. Now, that's trickier when, at the moment, you're making sales direct from Instagram, right? So it's tricky to stop doing that. So what we need to do is, once we've figured out the stage, we need to look at the next one, which is how do you make more sales to your list? Because once you start making lots more sales to the list, then you'll be like okay, cool, well, I need to grow that list so that I can make so many more sales to it. Like normally, what we see is about 80% of the potential sales in a business like this is in the email list rather than in direct promotion from in Instagram or on YouTube. That's generally what we're kind of seeing, especially with lower ticket stuff. That's the case.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to give that one a blue as well that's the case, so I'm gonna give that one a blue as well. So, um, the low ticket stuff is not as effective to be promoted on instagram versus a high ticket.
Speaker 2:yeah, so, for definite, with the low ticket stuff we see that it's much better to promote a lead magnet and then then the low ticket stuff to the email list after that. With the higher ticket stuff we have less data to back it, back it up. But everything that we're seeing is that, yeah, it's still better to promote the lead magnet and then promote the high ticket stuff to the email list after that rather than promote directly. It seems to be that with email you get more chances to make that sale, to do that promotion to somebody, and therefore it works out better to have that email list, the email address of that person, and send them regular messages through that, than to do it straight through.
Speaker 1:Okay, so when I did surveys on my current clients, they all say they found they heard about the course through Instagram. But do you think that's them just saying like? They found me through Instagram and then they were bought through email. Well, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think partly it's like that is what's working for you at the moment. So I don't want you to stop doing that until we've got you making more sales through the email list and then, if that's working which is exactly what I would expect to see then it will be an easy switch to go right. Well, let me just promote the lead magnet more. But at the moment most of your you're only doing 20 of the promotion being I think that's what you said of the lead magnet, and most of it, like 40, was the direct to the to the high ticket course. So it would make sense that that is actually how people are hearing about it okay, okay, I think, okay, I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1:I think I'm going to do like not promoting my low ticket offer at all on instagram and then just do lead back in it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and there's like we can gradually switch over with this. You know, it's not like a run, it exactly the way I say. And then you, if something doesn't work, then you don't make the high ticket sales that month or something like that. So it's fine. You know, I think we just gradually switch over and you'll start to see like 80 90 chance. So that's going to work really well and then it'll be easy to go. Okay, cool, great, now let's just focus on getting everybody over.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to give those last two blue would the master class be considered a lead magnet then?
Speaker 2:yes, absolutely yeah, because that's free, a free opt-in yeah, so that's got you the steps that should lead to that bigger email list which should be getting you those. How many? 1,200-ish that's a ballpark estimate, right, it's not an exact number, but something like that which would grow your list seven times faster. So that's pretty massive, but that's only useful if you're making sales to the list. So we're going to look at that next and have a look at what you've been doing. So the first things here are monthly nurture promos. All right, so I'm going to go back and check in your info that you sent me All this courses. How many email promotions do you each month? One Great, all right, cool. Talk me through those email promotions. How many emails are in them? What kind of? What's going into each of those emails? What's the kind of offer that you've got?
Speaker 1:Yeah, actually, when I did the work with you guys, you told me to do the email funnel where you have about me and then some engagement emails and then it goes into the sale and so I have that just automated for everyone that signs up for a lead magnet or comes into my email list. So that's what I count as like the one promotion I'm on.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's when new people sign up, they get that sequence of emails.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Great.
Speaker 1:And after that I do, I'll do like a value email and then just at the bottom have a link to whatever I'm selling. But I don't really do like full on, like promotion, promotion, unless I'm launching something.
Speaker 2:Got it and how often are you launching something?
Speaker 1:Like two times a year.
Speaker 2:Two times a year. All right cool.
Speaker 1:I would say two or three times a year.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you're doing two to three launch. Okay, I'm sorry, but you're getting a red on this one, okay, so nearly everybody that I talk to does two to three promotions a year, and when they do those promotions they make a lot more money. And so what we want here is for you to be making more money every month instead of two to three times a year, so having those spikes happen regularly. We've tried with clients doing this twice a month. We've tried doing it every two months. We've tried every six weeks. The sweet spot is once a month. We've tried doing it every two months. We've tried every six weeks. The sweet spot is once a month of doing these kind of these nurture promos once a month, and that could be all kinds of different things. Right, if you've got your high ticket coaching, you're already doing this. So you've got those ones going out. You've got how many low ticket courses have you got?
Speaker 1:I've got a lot, but the one that I'm focused on is just a $97 wood. It's 97, it's two parts, so you can buy one part for 97 or you can get both for 145.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, and what's the price point on any of the other courses that you got?
Speaker 1:Those range from 100 to 400.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, still on screen If I go over here here one bit up here, yeah, okay. So that's great that you've got a whole bunch of those courses. So how often are you promoting any of those to your email list?
Speaker 1:I don't. I think it's mostly because they're just so outdated and they're not really what I'm about anymore, like I changed my business over the last two years and so those courses just don't relate to my brand now.
Speaker 2:What about the two that you mentioned, the one that's 99 and the one that's one? Oh, the two from 47?.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that one relates more to my brand now.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool, great. How often do you promote those to your list?
Speaker 1:That's just in when they first sign up. That's part of the sequence.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay. So here's the issue with that. So great to have the welcome email sequence and be promoting those things Every month. You're getting 240 people who go through that list. Yes, 240, right Now. If you increase the number of opt-ins then you could have 1,700 people going through that. That's great. But your whole email list is 3,400. And so if those that anybody who didn't buy in that first, whatever it is week or two when you got that promotion, they then aren't getting a full promotion of that thing ever again. And so that number of people the 3400, that's where the bulk of the money is in your email list. And obviously, as we make that list even bigger, that's going to be a bigger deal.
Speaker 2:So if you have a promotion of one of your lower ticket offers, we'll do a bit of calculations of the kind of amount of money you might make from doing that, so you can kind of just see how does that weigh up against whatever else you've got to do, because obviously you're busy, right? Running a course business, running a coaching business, is time consuming. There's a lot to do, but this will give you an idea of how much you might make with each of these. So a typical email promotion to an email list makes between about 0.3% to 0.7% of conversion rate to sales. So let's jump this.
Speaker 2:So if we say 0.5% and I'm going to actually do this, for I'm going to multiply out the whole size of what the email list should be in 12 months if we had the bigger option rate, so $17.50. Yeah, I'm just going to do the sums on that $17.50 times 12. 21,000, so 24,400. And if we multiply that by the 0.5%, 24,000 times 0.5% would give 122 sales. And if you multiply that by $99, that's $12,000 in sales from the course. Now, that's dependent on getting the opt-in rate up and then doing that for a year. But this is just to give you an idea of the kind of numbers you could be getting. So what do you make when you do a launch at the moment of one of your higher ticket programs? How much are you typically making when you do that?
Speaker 1:So I had my high ticket program at a much lower price point than I'm doing this time around but, I'm also making it longer. So before it was three months and then it was $700, and now it's six months and the lowest price point is $1,300,. Regular is $1,750. Regular is $1,750.
Speaker 2:Got it Okay? Have you run a promotion at that price point yet?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool when it was at $700,. How much would you make when you do a launch of that $11,000. Okay, so like what's that? 15 sales, something like that.
Speaker 1:Oh, maybe it's a little more because there were 18 people 18.
Speaker 2:Something like that.
Speaker 1:Oh, maybe it's a little more because there were 18 people 18.
Speaker 2:Okay, cool 700 times 18 would be 12,600. Okay, great, okay. So if we get these things in place with what we've got so far, then you should be able to make as much with a DIY course where there's no delivery as you have currently been doing with selling a coaching program, where you then have to run the coaching. Now, obviously, you want to make more from the coaching as well, and that number should go up too. So when you do the launch of the high-ticket program, are you doing that to your email list as well as on Instagram? Yeah, okay, great Cool.
Speaker 1:So next thing that we need to have is going to be great sales pages, so let's draw that down. Question so I have a video, like a pre-recorded video course, of my high ticket offer. Should I sell that as like a course or should I just stick to the live coaching part? Do you think that would take people away from doing the high ticket offer?
Speaker 2:Great question. I think that it would be a great way to get more people into the high ticket program. So this is what we found is and it might depend on the timing of like well, when does your high ticket program start and how does this all fit together? But it should be be doable. What we found is we sell low ticket courses and then when somebody you have to be willing to do this next step, when somebody buys that, we then message them and we message with them a little bit by chat whether it's on instagram or sms or email and some, a percentage of those people then upsell into getting the high ticket coaching as well afterwards because they're like oh, actually, that would be great to go to the next now. That means doing that one-to-one work, messaging with people about that, which is then you've got to decide if that's worth your time, if that's something you're willing to do, but it does make more sales.
Speaker 2:Would it take some people away? I think? I think there's the possibility, but I don't think it's probably worth worrying about. I don't think that's the issue, especially if you then are able to upsell some of those people into the coaching. Here's the way I'd do. It is I'd have the promotion of the coaching and then I'd do a downsell afterwards, like as in for those of you who didn't buy this coaching, we've got a special offer for whatever two days or something of just get the course, and so you then know that all the people who are ready to buy the coaching well, they got the coaching straight away and then some of those people who buy the course might upsell into buying the coaching as well before it's even started, especially if there's like a week between the end of the promotion of the coaching and the start date of it, or three days in between or something, so they could get into it and you've got long enough before you promote the coaching again that you then have another batch of people who'd be kind of ready at that point.
Speaker 1:That's the way I'd do it. So the launch sequence would be like launch the high ticket offer and if they don't buy that, then downsell to the video course. How do I know if they don't buy that?
Speaker 2:You just tag them in kit.
Speaker 1:When they buy, you tag them as being a buyer. I mean like if they don't buy, but they were like interested in the high ticket offer. Said again so, because I'm downselling to people who don't buy the high ticket offer, right? How do I know they didn't like? How do I know who didn't buy the high ticket offer?
Speaker 2:well, everybody didn't buy it, unless they're tagged as having bought it. I see, okay, you've got 18. You, either manually or through an automation, tag all those people as buyers of the high ticket, and I guess, anybody who's bought it from you before, I suppose and then you just don't send those emails to those people.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, and so I should do that like a week before the high ticket offer closes.
Speaker 2:No a week. So after you've closed selling the high ticket offer, but before it starts, is there any time in between those two or does it normally like you finish selling on the day that you start running it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, kind of.
Speaker 2:If somebody, if you ran that promotion let's say you finish the you're starting on a Monday and you finish the promotion of it on the Sunday If somebody then bought the low ticket coaching they just bought the video course on the Monday Could they then go and join? Let's say they, you never messaged them and said, hey, we could get you into the coaching if you want. And they went oh, that sounds great. Could they get into that on the Tuesday? Or do they need to be there on the Monday for it? You know, like if they missed a day or something.
Speaker 1:No, I think that could be a week, or at least five days in between.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that would work. Yeah, it's a bit more to set up. We'd have to look at like, well, how much are you likely to make from that when you've just done the high ticket promotion? How many people will get this? But at your current email list size of 3,400, what might you sell that video course for on its own?
Speaker 2:Maybe like $4,000 or $5,000. You might make $5,000, something like that from it, from just selling the low ticket course afterwards. It depends on the conversion rate. Let's say it was at 0.2% instead. Then that's like $2,000 or $3,000. So a significant increase in revenue from your $5,000 you're at at the moment. So it could well be worth doing, certainly worth looking at as a test or something to try.
Speaker 2:Okay, so next thing we're going to look at is sales pages, right, so I'm going to look at one of your sales pages here. This is the sales page. Let's have a look at this. This is looking pretty good actually so far. So this is the sales page. We've got a VSL video at the top. That's great. On your sales page, you don't want to be promoting the lead magnet, so I'd get rid of that. At the very top, we've got what looks like a pretty good headline Feel at home in your sensuality and unlock the confidence you've been craving.
Speaker 2:That sounds good, okay. And then you've got a subheading Great. A six-month immersive coaching program to get you out of your head so you can feel at home in your body. Radiate confidence for effortless. This is strong. We've got the call to action button with a guarantee Okay, and we've got a pain point. This is really good. So it feels Okay. We've got talking about the issues people are facing and then you've got the solution. So we've got the pain agitation solution section how it works.
Speaker 2:This seems very benefit focused rather than just features, which is great. Benefit section introducing the instructor this is great social proof from the audience. Nice, everything that's included. This is a strong sales page. You've got bonuses. This is excellent. Yeah, this is all from you guys, is it? Well, I'm glad you listened and put it on the page. You've got more social proof. I'd want to see probably a summary section at the bottom, like a recap. Call to action button multiple times in the first person. Excellent, the sales page is great. I'm going to give you a green on that one. So let's stop sharing that. I'm going to go look at your checkout page, because the next thing we want is great checkout pages.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I use Thinkific's checkout page, so there's like really nothing I can do on it except have one order bump that I can't really talk much about.
Speaker 2:I click through. You can see that now, right, cool. Okay, it's on Thinkific, which isn't the greatest for this kind of thing, but this is pretty good. We've got an order bump, which is great. We've got a reminder that it's from you and a reminder of what the program is, which is great. We don't have the guarantee on this page again. Actually, if I go back, let me check Was the guarantee mentioned as its own section on here?
Speaker 1:No, it wasn't. I forgot to put that in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you've mentioned the guarantee after each call to action button and it's in the FAQs, but it should really have its own section. Okay, let's have a look here. Here the guarantee is not mentioned again here. There's no mention of the bonuses or the benefits. What do we got here? Yeah, this section where you're like talking about what they're getting, that could be boosted a little bit with like maybe three bullet points of the benefits and a reminder of what's in the program. If that can be added in I don't know, we think if it how much space you, but ideally we'd have that and ideally we'd have some social proof on this page as well. So three of the like three very short quotes from testimonials. All of that helps to increase the conversion rate and we've got the order bump. Thinkific's design of this page is awful.
Speaker 1:This isn't your fault. This is Thinkific, but like it just upsets me do you think it's worth it to use something like thrive card is probably it's gonna like.
Speaker 2:All of these things are going to go on a list of like, how much difference is it going to make and how much work is it? But yeah, at the moment I'm going to give you like kind of a middle one on this with a checkout page, all right now. The last one that we've got on here is the tripwire funnel. So this is for new people and I saw you have one. But there's a couple of things that need kind of tweaking with this. So I'm just going to go see if I can just sort something out. Okay, it might be this room that I book is. Somebody else has got it in a little bit, so if I get kicked out, we'll just find somewhere else and carry on. Okay, trip funnel so let's have a look at that. Okay, so if I share screen to your website and then I go to your lead magnet and sign up for that, now the first thing you're seeing is this promotion of these newsletters. How much money do you make from that at the moment, promoting other people's newsletters?
Speaker 1:40 to 50 a month.
Speaker 2:Okay, so it's almost definitely going to be worth turning that off and focusing on promoting the Tripwire funnel instead. Let's go back to, and we're going to do some calculations of about how much you might make from that.
Speaker 1:When you click out of that, it does go into the Tripwire page though.
Speaker 2:Yes, if you click the button in the email, it goes there right.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I see, right, if I go back here and I click off, that got it.
Speaker 1:Then it should bring you.
Speaker 2:No, it doesn't, Maybe later. Oh yeah, if you click, maybe later. Okay, so you're missing a lot of people getting to this page yeah, okay. Okay, so I'm going to do the sums on this page based on two things your current number of opt-ins and then your potential number of opt-ins as to what you should be making with the tripwire funnel, and then we'll kind of see. That should show it. It's almost definitely more than $55 a month, so it's going to be worth it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, like one sale is already $40.
Speaker 2:So tripwire funnels, if they're set up right, should get about 3% to 10% conversion rate from organic traffic, opting in to sales of a low-ticket offer. So I'm just doing the sums here 140 times by 3% would be 7 sales. Do you know about how many sales you make a month at the moment with it?
Speaker 1:I can look it up.
Speaker 2:Okay. So the sums I've got here are if you got 3%, with your current number of opt-ins per month, then you'd be getting $266 a month. And if you had 10% conversion rate, at that $38, you'd be getting $912 a month. So definitely that's like the thing to be focused on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right now I'm getting um 775 a month that's good already, then nice.
Speaker 2:So it must be converting. Well, for people wait. Why is that? Why?
Speaker 1:are some of these more expensive? Oh, because I'm there. Some of them bought order bumps with it. Yeah, actually there were quite a few order bumps that went with it that were higher, so I think that's where the higher number came from.
Speaker 2:Nice, okay, cool. So that calculation I was doing was just on the regular offer, not including the order bump, so that should be even higher because we've got order bumps coming across the bottom, which I know you have in place, which I love. I'm very excited. That's awesome from you guys.
Speaker 2:All right, cool. So I'm now going to do the calculation based on the new number of opt-ins you hypothetically should be getting. So if we do it with that 1,750 opt-ins, we're going to see what those numbers come out as 1,750, I think that was the right number, wasn't it? Yeah, times by 3% would be 52 sales times by $38, so not even including the order bumps and upsells, that would be $2,000 a month, and 10% times that would be $6,000. Scoot, what's over. So okay, so that's what you should probably be getting from the tripwire if you increase your opt-in rate and make sure it's optimized and have that as the focus, rather than those newsletters kind of getting in the way as well. So that is significant. Like that's what was our original goal. In case you want to add 10k and there we're looking at between two and six thousand adding per month just from that, which is like that's really helping. And we had 12 000 coming probably from the low ticket offers that promoted when your email list is bigger, and obviously you then get a much. You're already making like 11 or 12 000 a month when you do the in the month, when you do the promotion of the high ticket offer, and so with a bigger email list, that should go up significantly as well, because that's being done to your instagram audience at the moment.
Speaker 2:I'm not 100 on the the numbers on that one, so I have to think okay, so what we've got left now is order bumps and upsells, and you in in here. No, okay, okay. So high ticket per sale revenue per sale we want to have order bumps, we want to have upsells and we want to have a high ticket program. You've got a high ticket program. You are way ahead of most people on this one, which is awesome. Okay, so for these, I'm thinking you might even be in the green on these ones, because you've got quite a lot of money coming in from those, didn't you? So talk me through your order bumps and like how well do you know the conversion rates in any of those?
Speaker 1:No, so I just did the consulting with you guys last month. So all of this that I set up is new. So I have baby. I have the data from March. I actually don't know Is there a quick way to find it? How many order bumps?
Speaker 2:I'm not sure it varies massively from software to software.
Speaker 1:I can just see here. So that's 14 of 72.
Speaker 2:Oh, that sounds not bad. Actually it's like about a quarter or something, 20%. Okay. So with order bumps we're looking from 20 to 60 conversion rate. The best we've ever had is like 90, but it's rare, it's not the norm. So I don't want to kind of look at the outliers, I want to just look at the most common things. So potentially all the amounts of money we've put so far up here should have an extra like 20% added to from 20 to 30% from order bumps and upsells combined. Now you're currently at 20%, which is great. It's a great starting point. I think there's a lot of improvements to do on that one. So therefore we're going to give that probably a blue, because you've got them, but they need to be optimized. Talk to me about your upsells. What have you got as the upsells in any of your programs?
Speaker 1:The upsell page. So after they purchase something, I have to think of a redirect them to one of my website pages where I'll upsell on an offer that is, I think, right now. It's kind of random.
Speaker 2:Okay. But you've got something which is great because then some people can buy instead of no people. So we're going to give that one a blue as well then, okay. And then high ticket program I think is actually good. You've got this. This is like way ahead. So we're going to give that a green for anybody who doesn't have a high ticket program. Let me move this so we can see the screen. They typically can make a business increase in revenue by like 20 to about double by just having that high ticket program versus the low ticket courses. And so I've even heard more. I've heard people like doing three or four or five times as much revenue because they've got a high ticket program. So the fact you've got that excellent, okay. So let's just jot down a few final sums on this and like add all these numbers up in terms of I think this 15K number that you've got getting to. I think this is like you can beat that. I think that's beatable, so it's just great.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to do these ones. It's kind of a bit more straightforward. We're going to do like an extra 20 revenue from order bumps and upsells together on top of the numbers that I had before. So we had with the tripwire funnel. If you increase your opt-in rate so you get that 1700 people coming in per month and you get a high converting tripwire funnel. If you increase your opt-in rate, so you get that 1,700 people coming in per month and you get a high-converting tripwire funnel actually $6,000 from that. So we're going to add another 20%. We'll go with the low end to be more conservative 20% on top of that. So that's $8,000 potentially with the tripwire funnel.
Speaker 2:And then we said $12,000 from a nurture promo of your low ticket course. We can add 20% on that. That's 14,400. Then this one's a bit more, even more ballpark. But if we do we're currently doing 11 or 12,000 with your high ticket course, high ticket coaching, and if we can grow that email list considerably, I'm going to say that we could. I'm going to say at least three times the revenue that comes in from that with a good, a good launch of that one. I think it's probably more. But I want to kind of err on the lower side. So if we add those numbers together we've got the 14 400 in a monthly nurture promo, plus the, and with tripwire would give 22 400 and then that's the kind of the low end and then some months, when you did the high ticket promotion, would then be like the 30 000.
Speaker 2:Now these numbers this is all estimates, right? This is based on like data. You know clients that we've worked with in the past and like we've run, I don't know, hundreds of these kind of campaigns. It's not a guarantee. These are the numbers that you can get, but it's like it gives a good idea of like what's possible. So we take all of that together, we're looking at an average of about maybe a little bit more 25, without growing your audience, with your current audience, and if these numbers are about right, I think that's the kind of number you should be able to get to over the course of the next 12 months, instead of that 15. Which is great. This is excellent news. Okay, any questions about parts of that, because that's a lot that we've just gone through there.
Speaker 1:I guess a lot of this is riding on making sure I get people in to my email list. Yes, so that's like the most important step I should focus.
Speaker 2:It's like step one. I suppose step one and you've probably actually done this already is KPI tracking and customer avatar, which is like the slightly more boring ones. But I know, since you went through the audit, that you should have this already. But I'll jot those down for everybody else. And we have a module that anybody we work with, who wants to do, anybody who we're working with, that's the first things we'll do with them.
Speaker 2:If you listen to this and you're like I should do that customer avatar on KPIs, you totally should. That's great, we totally should. That's great. We have a module that you can access and if you email me and you promise me that you will do the work on the customer avatar, then I will send you access to be able to get through, get into that course. I just drop me an email, john at data driven marketingco, and say that you promise you will do the work on the customer avatar and I'll send you the access and I will follow up and I will check and I will make sure that you actually do that work. So that that's the base.
Speaker 2:But then after that, the first thing is like, yeah, improve the opt-in rate, because that's the thing that takes. You know you do it now and then it pays off for a long time. So, promoting the lead magnet via ManyChat on Instagram instead of the low ticket courses, promoting it more often. So you have something in pretty much every video looking at your YouTube opt-ins as well, much every video looking at your youtube opt-ins as well, which we didn't we didn't go through today, but that's like probably another big potential place to get opt-ins from yeah, I don't know how to look at my youtube opt-ins, okay so there's two parts to this.
Speaker 2:One is the tracking and the other it's the. I'm going to share screen again here and have a little look, okay. So what we want to see is every video should have a promotion of the lead magnet in the video itself, generally about a couple of minutes in, so it's not going to affect your retention because it's not in that first 30 seconds. It's not like before people have decided they're sticking around and not right at the end, after the number of people who are still watching is lower. We then also want it to be promoted in the description above the fold. So you see, here you've got the description of the video, but what we want as the first thing is the actual promotion of the lead magnet. Got the promotion of your high ticket course there and online programs and a free lesson. So there's a lot of different stuff that you're promoting here. I'd cut this down. Get rid of Instagram and TikTok off here. Move the whatever it is you want to promote the most up to the very top, because lots of people just don't click that show more bit and so they never see it, and then most of the time, I would suggest you have just the free lesson. That's the only thing that people can see. You don't have the low-ticket stuff. If you want to promote the high-ticket stuff in there, cool, but I would probably focus just everything on get people onto that email list. So let's go have a look at somebody else who's got this in place. This is our channel. If I click on, hopefully everything is all set up properly. We'll find out in a sec.
Speaker 2:You'll see here above the fold, it's got get my free email templates and then the link there and then it's got it again in the pinned comment. So that's the kind of thing that I'm talking about and that increases options significantly, like a lot. It's astonishing how many people won't click on that see more. And if there's too many opt-ins, how many people just don't do anything and then don't use any of them. So that'll help. And then, like I said, if you're doing a video and it's like five points, you've got your hook, your intro point one, then promote the lead magnet and then you go the rest of the video and so having it in the video, that increases opt-ins a lot as well. Nice, all right, helpful and so helpful. Great, I like to hear. Okay, let's stay in touch. Let me know how you get on with implementing these, where you get to in terms of improving your option rates and how much your email list gets to, and we'll kind of go from there.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Fabulous. You're very welcome For anybody these free reviews of your business then drop me an email, john at datadrivenmarketingco. I do two or three of these a week, so I can't promise it'll be straight away, but I do do these reviews for people when I can. I know they're super helpful for everybody and so if you want to get a hold of that, just drop me that email free funnel review in the subject line and john J-O-H-N at datadrivenmark.