The Art of Selling Online Courses

Meet the Artist Running a $600K Online Business

• John Ainsworth

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Remy teaches watercolor painting as a hobby. His 6-month coaching program costs $5,000. His conversion rate? 50%.

While competitors give away free tutorials, he's built a $600K+ business by doing the opposite of what most course creators do.

In this episode, you'll discover:
• Why connection beats perfection in any market
• How to charge premium prices for "hobby" teaching
• The difference between impressing and inspiring your audience  
• His approach to high-ticket sales calls (and why fewer calls = higher conversions)
• What happens when you share failures instead of just successes

Remy's a former engineer who quit after 15 years to build his art business in 2021. He's grown to 30,000 YouTube subscribers and teaches a "spiritual approach" to watercolor that connects art to life experiences.

If you're thinking about adding higher-ticket offerings to your course business, this episode shows how it's possible in markets you might not expect.

📧 Email me at john@datadrivenmarketing.co with your email list size, current course prices, and website for free high-ticket coaching resources including funnel maps and our $100 Million Offer workbook.

Speaker 1:

Every time I failed, I felt like shit. I decided okay, I'm going to tell the truth. I didn't want to do that many sales calls anymore. I can't stand my YouTube channel anymore. If you are not 100% convinced that it's going to change your customer's life, I know that it doesn't work with me. I have to be 100% confident.

Speaker 2:

Hello and welcome to the Art of selling online courses. We're here to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. My name is John Ainsworth and today's guest is Remy Lack. Now, remy is a self-taught artist. He was a former engineer and then he quit after 15 years and he started his art business in 2021. He was a former engineer and then he quit after 15 years and he started his art business in 2021. He's now made over $600,000 and grown an extremely loyal audience, and we're going to talk today about the benefits of sharing who you are openly, if you want to impress people, share your wins.

Speaker 1:

But if you want to inspire people, share your vulnerability, share your failures.

Speaker 2:

Why Remy sometimes cries in his YouTube videos. And it wasn't.

Speaker 1:

I wasn't supposed to cry in this video. I didn't want to cry, but I actually did.

Speaker 2:

And from that moment what I realized is and how to build a connection with your audience. I think it's a very healthy struggle.

Speaker 1:

Actually, Many people were very shocked. Shocked by the price, just for a hobby and it's fine. This is not really my audience. I think my biggest lever here is the connection with my audience and it allows me to charge a premium price, Remy welcome to the show.

Speaker 2:

Hello, John. Yeah, so thank you. Give us an idea of like I kind of mentioned it briefly, but like who specifically are you helping with your courses and what kind of problems you're solving for them.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's a B2C market where I help people create watercolors that come truly from them, that are not a copy paste of tutorials that they can find on youtube and that are beautiful, that create a wow effect where people just tell them wow, is it really you that did that?

Speaker 2:

nice, okay, and how do you? How do you do that, like what's different about your approach to the approach that others are taking?

Speaker 1:

then I stopped creating YouTube tutorials because this is what works on my market, the watercolor market, and I decided to take another approach where I make the link between watercolor and life instead, so it's more a spiritual approach life instead, so it's more spiritual approach.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so so this is something that you kind of noticed was working in your market, and so you stopped doing tutorials. So do you still do YouTube videos then? But they're not tutorials?

Speaker 1:

Yes, Right, I still do YouTube videos, but I'm trying to have a more um, a meta approach where, instead of creating tutorials after tutorials, I create something that has, I think has a much deeper impact on my audience.

Speaker 2:

So how do you do that? What kind of videos are you making now then, For example?

Speaker 1:

instead of telling them exactly what to do, I'm trying to take several watercolors that I did and I'm trying to create a template or something, a methodology that I came up with and then I share it on YouTube and people love it because it makes them reconnect with their own creativity and they can think about their own topics, their own subjects, so that they can use the same templates, the same methodology, with their own picture, their own art.

Speaker 2:

Man, that's cool, that's very deep, like you know. It's like why would you start doing watercolor painting in the first place? It's not so that you can exactly replicate what somebody else is doing, but that's kind of how you learn to do it. I imagine Like I've only done a little tiny bit of watercolor painting my friend Quinn I lived in Playa del Carmen in Mexico for a while and my friend Quinn had this amazing, beautiful flat and the reason she was able to get it was because during COVID people weren't renting new places and she wanted to rent and this place became available and so she had this great place, massive, with a giant outdoor balcony, you know terrace, and a swimming pool and all kinds of stuff, and every Friday she would have a watercolor and barbecue at hers in the evening. And so our mutual friend, kat Coquillette, who is a great watercolor artist, would come and like teach us all watercolor painting, and like we'd all sit around and you choose something that you're going to draw and then you'd sketch it out and then you draw that. You know you'd paint it, and she'd kind of constantly be coming around and giving us little tips, but she'd also be doing her own painting at the same time and her boyfriend, adam, loved to cook, loved to cook, and he would spend all day preparing food and then in the evening he would cook us um barbecue and it was just like this is. It was so much fun.

Speaker 2:

So that's how much watercolor I've done. I just do it around when I was hanging out with Quint, but like that's how I kind of imagine it. So I learn I'm learning bass at the moment. I don't know if you can see it back here One minute. It's just in the background, like here. I know I can't see it, no.

Speaker 1:

Okay, ah yes, it's a big one On the sofa.

Speaker 2:

Wait a minute, here we go. We're going on a tour of my flat everybody If you're watching on YouTube. So this is my bass, which I adore, and I really like to play blues rock, which is a very specific niche genre. That's like the kind of thing I really love, and one of the things that I learned I discovered about blues rock which is awesome is that a lot of it does not have to be played exactly the way that it was written. There's like you have to hit the root note and then you have to hit other notes in the minor pentatonic scale, and I'm like, oh, this is fun, so you can kind of fuck around a little bit and like, do stuff that you want to do.

Speaker 2:

And so this is just me trying to find kind of connections with what you're talking, my understanding of what you're talking about in terms of, like people being able to do things their way. Okay, so let's go in a little bit into how you actually kind of are running the business. So what's your audience size on YouTube? Is YouTube your main traffic source?

Speaker 1:

It used to be and I grew the channel up to 30,000 subscribers. But recently I also started a Facebook page and an Instagram profile and I realized that many people are discovering me as well on those platforms. They are very visual. There are lots of facebook groups on watercolor in on facebook, so a lot of yeah, some part of my audience is hanging in those kind of platforms. So those platform instagram and facebook are working quite well nice, okay, cool.

Speaker 2:

So you had 30 000 subscribers on youtube. How many views do you get a month on there?

Speaker 1:

um, it depends on with. With my youtube shots, I think it's something like several tens of thousands of views, and if I'm just looking at my long form videos, I think it's something like maybe it's 10,000. Maybe I can have a look Just a second. Okay, just on the long form video in the past 28 days it's 22,000 views.

Speaker 2:

Okay, and who does your typical audience, member or customer tend to be? Is it like a male, female? What kind of age range Are they? Total beginners? What kind of who are you appealing to?

Speaker 1:

It's mainly women, but there are some men, so like 75% women, 25% men, and most of them are over 50 years old and they are. They are speaking french because my youtube channel is in french yeah, yeah, so is it only?

Speaker 2:

is it people in france, or is it a lot of like, because where else people speak french? Some african countries, canada?

Speaker 1:

canada yes. Switzerland, african countries, canada Canada yes. Switzerland Canada yes, mainly those countries yes.

Speaker 2:

Okay, okay, cool. Now, one thing that you'd said, and I mentioned in the intro, was that you feel that what's driven your success the most is your connection with your audience. Could you expand on that and kind of explain to us what you mean?

Speaker 1:

Yes, because I share quite openly on my YouTube channel. I consider my YouTube channel as a journaling tool, something like that. When something happens in my life, then I make the link with watercolor, and when something happens with watercolor, I can make the link with my life. With watercolor, I can make the link with my life and under those conditions, I am willing to share that on YouTube and so sharing my personal experience, like I've been an employee for 15 years and then I decided to switch to live my own life. It's like you are copying tutorials, watercolor tutorials for 15 years and then you decide, okay, I want to create my own art now, so you can see some parallel between life and watercolor. And these are the kinds of things that I share and then people can discover who I really am when I share my life experience.

Speaker 2:

And do you feel like that leads then to business success as well?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I think so, Because sometimes when I have the opportunity to talk with some students and ask them why me? Then they tell me that it's because who you are. I discovered your channel on YouTube and, compared to every everybody else on the market, you, you stand out. Because I can relate to what you, what you lived. I can relate to what you lived. I can relate with your experience. I can relate to many things that I went through in my life.

Speaker 2:

Interesting Okay, so people kind of connect with you as a person and then therefore you're the one they want to learn from. Do you think that's more than your methodologies and your systems and what you're teaching, or do you think it's like the two of them are intertwined?

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's intertwined, because when I teach my methodology, it's also that I talk about my own experience. But then it comes down to storytelling, because when, for example, I share a methodology to have vibrant colors in your watercolor, I share. Okay, before I was painting like that and it was fine, but I always had the feeling that something was off in my paintings. And then one day, just by accident, I used this color much more than usually and then everything changed and from this moment I created this, this, this and this watercolor, and now I'm going to show you exactly how I did that. But it comes from my own experience. So my methodology is a mix of storytelling. It's also some structure, some step-by-step guidelines, and it's also very technical actually. So people different kinds of people can relate to the way I teach, because for people who are sensitive to storytelling, they are going to relate to that. For people who are just looking for techniques, they are going to relate to that as well. So I think there are many components in my teaching that people can relate to.

Speaker 2:

I was giving a presentation the other day at a conference and one of the other speakers came up to me afterwards and said, but just so much, yourself when you're on stage, and my initial thought was, well, who else would I be? But then I was like I. Then I thought more about it and I was like, oh no, I do get. I do get what she means, because it can be very difficult to be yourself when you're presenting. You know, like you're kind of trying to be presenter you and like you don't want to be boring, you don't want to be disinterested, you want to be excited about it.

Speaker 2:

But it's weird sometimes presenting to an audience or to a camera or what have you, and then it can be a bit stilted and the full version of you doesn't always come through and I guess I kind of done enough presenting that. I kind of got over that and was just like, oh, screw it, I'm just so. It's quite easy to be excited about telling people about it, but that's really interesting how you've kind of did you always do that? Is that something you've consciously tried to do, like to share everything personally, sharing who you are so openly on your videos, or is it something that you always just naturally did Like. How did that come about?

Speaker 1:

Yes, it was a lot of trial and errors, because and it comes down also to, yes, this video where, where? Where I cried because I was fed up with my youtube channel. I've been running for adult at that it was like for one year and a half or two years and at first I created what people, what I thought people wanted meaning tutorials, techniques and so on and it went quite well. This is how I grew my YouTube channel mainly up to 20,000 subscribers, something like that.

Speaker 1:

But I was fed up with that because I didn't believe in what I taught and in doing so, one day I think it was last year, beginning of last year I decided, okay, I'm going to tell the truth, I can't stand my YouTube channel anymore. And this is exactly the title of the YouTube video I can't stand my YouTube channel anymore. And in this video, I shared that openly, that I was wearing a mask from the beginning and I was trying to please people by being very step-by-step guidelines with tutorials that people wanted. And I wanted to please people and it wasn't me at all. And then I decided, okay, I'm going to share it openly. And in this moment I said I can't bear it anymore and I cried, and I wasn't supposed to cry in this video.

Speaker 1:

I didn't want to cry, but I I actually did. And um, and from that moment, what I realized is that when I posted this video, it was very people reacted so much more than my classic tutorial videos. First and secondly, I had so many subscribers email subscribers. Normally I get like between three and five leads per day with my YouTube channel and this was like more than 10 per day, so it's double or triple the lead flow. And also, at that moment, I had a funnel, like a call booking funnel, and I had so many calls booked just after this video yes, yes, yes. And also the sales calls, if we can call them like that. It was effortless because people, they related to this video so much that they decided, okay, he's not the marketing guy with a strong selling mood, he's a guy just like me and he's trying to make a living out of something just like me. He struggled just like me and I want to learn from him. And this is when I realized, okay, if you are just yourself, I think it can work.

Speaker 2:

That's. That's really interesting. Okay, and so did it. Was that like the turning point and after that all videos, you were more yourself, or was it still something you had to kind of work on after that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, still, I had to work because, um, this was a turning point when I realized that I didn't need to have loads and loads of views. Before I used to have more than 10,000 views on my videos. Now I have between one and one and 3000 views, and it's fine because people who are watching me are really connected to who I am now. So this was a turning point on my youtube channel, so it it didn't grow as much as before, but I know for sure that the audience who is subscribing to my youtube channel currently is a very qualified audience, and then I tried to replicate that, but I didn't see myself crying every single video like how am I gonna make myself this time?

Speaker 2:

I'm not gonna yeah please cry please cry onions and like squeezing your skin thinking about mean things.

Speaker 1:

But then this is when I think it comes down to watercolor as well. When you find a technique, a new technique, you tend to hammer this technique, to just use this technique 100% of the time. But actually what happens is you have to think about okay, what does this technique bring? Actually, you have to appropriate this technique before using it consciously. And sometimes it's a happy accident, just like this video. But then when you try another video and it doesn't work as well, and another one it doesn't work as well, and then you come back to tutorials sometimes and it works fine, but not as fine as before, then you realize that, okay, it's not not just one thing, it's not binary, it's a very nuanced thinking and sometimes it's an authentic video that people are looking for, and sometimes it's just okay. This is my methodology for you to create stunning watercolors.

Speaker 1:

Now it's more balanced. I guess after this turning point Now I have more mixed kind of way of doing my YouTube videos. It's more structured, but it's also there is also room and space for me to just talk about something that happened yesterday with my girlfriend or with my parents or with anything that comes to mind. So it's a mix of before very structured but zero spontaneity, and now it's more 50% structure, 50% authenticity. That makes sense. Okay, 50% authenticity that makes sense.

Speaker 2:

Okay, let's talk a little bit about your actual courses. So what are your? How do your courses work? You've got coaching included with them as well. Often, don't you?

Speaker 1:

Yes, right Before when I started, I used to make only online courses. Okay, with some, with some sales page email, email campaign, and that's pretty much it. And I didn't want to have any contact with my students because I didn't feel at ease with that and I'd rather create in my own studio and then share publicly what works. Yeah and um, I think that, yes, then I I realized that I didn't want to do online courses anymore because it was too much pressure. Every time I failed I felt like shit. So then I decided, okay, let's, let's try a coaching program where I will paint live with my students. And, um, it works really well. Because I realized that people were fine with me failing live. And then they told me and yes, it was just yesterday they told me after one live, you know what?

Speaker 1:

The best moment when I learned so much is when you fail in watercolor, when something is not happening the way I want. And then I explain them during the live. Oh, okay, it's not working like I want, but you know what? It's fine, it's not a big deal. And here is how I'm going to correct, here is how I'm going to change my mind.

Speaker 1:

And then, when they realize that, they tell me, wow it. It changed so much compared to all the online courses that I can find on the internet, because the online courses only show you the polished version, only show you the best version. Yeah, it doesn't show you the real life, what happens in your painting studio when you are stuck, when you don't know how you are going to pursue your painting. And when you are stuck when you don't know how you are going to pursue your painting and when you fail, just like us, and when you come out with a solution. This is when I learned so much more than everything else that I can find that is perfectly crafted for the social networks, for the social networks.

Speaker 2:

One of the things that I have always found difficult and less helpful about when people give training is that everybody shares, or nearly everybody shares, in their training.

Speaker 2:

This is the perfect version.

Speaker 2:

This is how to do it perfectly and the ideal like ideally, you should do it like this.

Speaker 2:

To do it perfectly and like the ideal, like ideally, you should do it like this. And I really like to see like someone actually uh, doing the thing, or like the real life example, because when you see the real one, you go like, oh okay, well, hypothetically, you would have ideally done it like this at this 10 out of 10 level, but actually your one was only like a 7 out of 10 against that standard and that worked perfectly well. So I can do that, I can kind of relate to that more, and so it kind of is like similar to what you're saying. I think about the them seeing you making mistakes and then going back, and it makes it more like, oh okay, if remy can make mistakes and then fix it and then still make this great, beautiful art, then maybe when I make a mistake, it's not the end of the world and I can manage to do something good as well, you know. So it's like quite inspiring. I think you said that, actually something like that, in your, when you'd shared some stuff with me before.

Speaker 1:

What did you tell me? Yes, if you want to impress people, share your wins, but if you want to inspire people, share your vulnerability, share Hire people. Share your vulnerability, share your failures.

Speaker 2:

Is that how you learned that? Through the story you just told about doing the coaching with people?

Speaker 1:

Yes, I also learned through this turning point on my YouTube channel as well.

Speaker 1:

And when I share to my students openly. Okay, you know what, I'm not satisfied with this painting and I'm quite I'm not satisfied with this painting and, um, and I'm, I'm quite ashamed actually. And this is when people tell me but no, no, this part is very good, but, uh, but you know what it's? It's very good that you can say that to me, because I can relate to that. And it's not the end of the world, just like you said. So then I realized, okay, if I share also when I fail, it inspires people more. Maybe I'm not the hero, I'm not the best artist in the world, but I don't want to be that guy. I want to be a guy that learn is in a ongoing process of learning through watercolor, through life, and if I can help my student have the same mindset, then this is.

Speaker 2:

This is where I think my mission is fulfilled I was chatting with jack kowalski the other day, who has been on the, the podcast before he teaches banjo, and one of the things that he was kind of stuck with earlier on hey, jack, if you're listening, um, he's uh, he's coming around for dinner tonight actually as well. But um, jack said one of the things that he kind of got stuck with earlier on was that he's like but I'm not the best banjo player in the world. He's good, he's really good, right, he's played on studio, produced albums for other artists, for bands and what have you. But he was like but is that? You know, do I have the right to be teaching this Like, when I'm not like the absolute best person at that? But it's like you definitely know more than the people you're teaching for one and two.

Speaker 2:

It's like it's. I think it's like you're saying it's helpful for people to see someone who isn't like so good that they can't even relate to it anymore. It's like someone who is way ahead of them but is still learning and still improving and still figuring things out themselves as well. So that's fascinating man. And how does that work like from a business point of view? How does your coaching, how much does your coaching cost people?

Speaker 1:

So this is my high ticket program. It's 5,000 for six months coaching program and I meet them twice every week. So it's a group coaching program where I can share how I paint things and I can also give feedback to people when they paint. I can see them and I can then comment on how they paint in order to for them to improve nice, it's five thousand for six months.

Speaker 2:

Interesting, and how does? Is that a price point where people are like totally happy with that? Are some people like, oh my god, that's far too much for me to pay for learning watercolor? Like do you tell people the price in advance? How's that kind of work?

Speaker 1:

No, I didn't, I didn't tell the price in advance, and um, and sometimes, yes, some people are very surprised because for them it's just a hobby. But this is not really my audience, because I'm looking for people who can really relate to my story as well. So this is why I, at the beginning of this podcast, I said that I think my biggest lever here is the connection with my audience, and it allows me to to to charge a premium price in order to have very limited number of people and then having a great experience with them. It's a technical, but it's also creative and mainly it's a human connection.

Speaker 2:

So how often? How do you promote those? How do you get people onto those calls? Do people just go and book that? Are you promoting the calls directly through email? Do you run webinars and then promote them? Like, what's the system for getting people to jump on calls about that?

Speaker 1:

It changed a lot. So it was a lot of trial and errors, but at first it was just I'm launching that, just book a call if you want to know more. This is a promise and this is how I'm going to do that. It's a coaching program. So if you are motivated, just book a call. So this was the first iteration. And then what happened?

Speaker 1:

I run this funnel for something like one year and a half and at the beginning of this year I decided that I didn't want to do that many sales calls anymore. I wanted to work on my marketing more and on my on my coaching, on my delivery, and in doing so I decided okay, I'm going to run low ticket offers that are going to be workshops and that are going to be snippets of my coaching program. One, live with me and if people love that, then just book a call. So it's basically some people that have already paid for something that have the opportunity to book a call with me. So by doing so, I divided the number of calls by I can't remember, but by a lot, and I can recall that I make between 5 and 10, 5 and 15 calls per month at the beginning of this year. So it was digestible for me and the closing rate was higher as well, so it was fine for me.

Speaker 1:

And now I'm thinking about okay, I have this low ticket offer, let's have a mid ticket offer, because many people were very shocked and yes, I think it's the world shocked by the price just for a hobby. I don't. I've already thought about teaching people to sell their art, because in the marketing world you hear you have to have a financial ROI offer so that you can charge a lot and so on. But I didn't want to do that. But I know that some people are very shocked when they hear the price and it's fine. But to those people I don't offer anything and that's why I'm currently crafting an offer that is kind of a mid ticket offer. It's not a low ticket, it's not a low ticket, it's not a high ticket, but a mid ticket, and it allows people to to have access to me, but only once per week, and we can. We can create something together. So this is I'm currently thinking about that interesting.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so take us through it again. So the way you change it used to be you just email people and say, if you want to book a call, book the call. And then you changed it to be that you sold the low ticket offer. And then what? At the end of that workshop, you promoted booking a call. Was it, or how did it work?

Speaker 1:

again. Yes, it's something like that. So YouTube channel or social networks? So it's something like that. So YouTube channel or social networks? So it's 100% organic Opt-in page where there is no lead magnet, just the promise.

Speaker 1:

If you want to create beautiful watercolor your own way, enter your email. You are going to have a free video, then a VSL 13 minutes of VSL and then you can book a call. So I created lots of filters the button to book a call cannot appear after before a certain amount of time, and then I also added a part at the end of the video. It's not cheap, it's not an online course. So please book a call if you are really willing to improve in watercolor. So that kind of stuff. It reduces the workload and the number of sales calls for me.

Speaker 1:

But then I just wanted to try. Okay, just a little offer. In my email promotion I make an email, an invitation to a live with me, and that's pretty much. It A live with me and we are going to paint this watercolor. And if people love that, they know my vibe, they know how I teach and they know if it does resonate with them and if it does, I offer the opportunity to book a call with me and then they book a call and then we have a talk.

Speaker 2:

I talk to a lot of people who are only selling online courses and I talk to them about the idea that they could be selling a much, much, much, much, much more expensive offering of some kind of coaching, like you are doing. And I tell them about a few different people. I tell them about Scott from Scott's Bass Lessons, which is I'll just find the episode number it's episode 117 from January, the 4th 2024, with Scott Devine, and I talked to them about Christopher Sutton. So Scott runs Scott's Bass Lessons, christopher Sutton. I talked to him I don't think he mentioned his high ticket program in this episode, but I had an episode with him June 28th 2021, episode 14. And both of them are teaching people music.

Speaker 2:

So Christopher's teaching musicality and Scott is teaching bass. And they are mostly teaching this to people who are learning as a hobby, not as a profession, I believe and they are both selling coaching programs for thousands and thousands of dollars, similar to yours, more expensive, I think, than yours and nearly everybody who I tell this to. If they're selling courses for like two or three hundred dollars to their audience, it's like they look at me like I'm crazy, like that couldn't possibly work. My audience would never spend all of this and yet there's all these people, there's you and there's christopher and there's scott all doing this same approach. Can you tell people about, like the, the pros and the cons of running a high ticket offer versus just selling low ticket courses?

Speaker 1:

yeah, the high ticket offer for me it people. People need to have access to me, so you have a schedule and I have to go live with my students every week, so it can be a constraint for some people. So it really depends on you whether you are more a marketing guy and you want to craft copyrighted sales pages and so on. Maybe the online courses is a good fit If you want to have a bigger impact with your audience, with your students, and then see them improve and have a connection with them. For example, I was on vacation, like one week ago and I had a dinner with one of my students who was in the south of France.

Speaker 1:

But this would. I wouldn't do that with students from my online courses. I only do that with people in my high ticket. So if you want to have a deeper connection, then I think it's a good way to go the high ticket thing. But with a high ticket, you also have to do sales calls, and at least this is what I thought until now. But for me, the closing rate is much higher if you do sales calls. So it really depends and also I would say that I do both actually.

Speaker 2:

I sell.

Speaker 1:

High ticket. Yes, I sell Whenever I feel it. Sometimes I don't want to do the, I don't want to sell the high ticket program, so I just come because I want to sell something that is more affordable, much cheaper and that solve a very specific issue, and then I just sell it through email and I love writing this sales copy at this time and then I'm I'm bored with that and in that way I start reaching out with some people, with my students, and you can feel it in my YouTube channel. My YouTube channel evolves the way I evolve as well. So sometimes I just want to promote an online course, sometimes I just want to promote a workshop, one live workshop with me. Sometimes I want to promote a whole program.

Speaker 1:

It really depends, and I also learned to listen to myself because I know that if I'm not in the right energy, if I'm not three 500% convinced that this is a real deal whether it be an online course, three months cohort, a six month coaching program If you are not 100% convinced that it's going to change your customer's life, I know that it doesn't work with me.

Speaker 1:

I have to be 100% confident. So in doing so, I know that the online space is promoting one offer, one avatar, and I know that if I listen truly to myself, I want to create so many things. In the end, I'm an artist as well as an entrepreneur. So just listen to yourself, just create whatever you want and, if you are in the right energy, it will change people's life. Whether it be just a one hour online course, whatever you want and if you are in the right energy, it will change people's life. Whether it be just a one hour online course, I don't care, because I know that I'm going to have the right tonality, I'm going to have the right words, I'm going to have the right energy.

Speaker 2:

What's the typical conversion rate for you for the sales calls that you've done, now that you've got like a lower, a lower number of them with a higher conversion rate, because I feel like that's an important thing that people will be interested in to decide whether to do this or not?

Speaker 1:

yes, before, when the cold booking was free, I used to have between, I think, 20 and 40, maybe 20 and 35% of conversion rate, and since I created the low ticket to the high ticket thing, my conversion rate is around 50%. Okay, so it's really good because I spend less time and it's more efficient. Yeah, if you are listening to this and you're like, oh, how would that work? I spend less time and it's more efficient.

Speaker 2:

Yeah yeah. If you are listening to this and you're like, oh, how would that work? What kind of? How would I figure out my coaching program? I'm interested in doing this but I'm not quite sure about it, Then drop me an email and I'll send you through some resources about it. I'll put together a few things. I haven't got a landing page for it or lead magnet set up or anything. But if you just email me, john at datadrivenmarketingco, and you tell me, if you tell me what size your email list is, what price your courses are normally, what your website is and whether you've done any of this kind of high ticket coaching before, then I will. I'll message you back and send you through a few resources about it. So just drop me an email, john at data-driven marketingco.

Speaker 2:

So I think that what I've seen is that adding a high ticket offer can between some people, it like adds 20 30 revenue to their business. Some people, it like adds 20% 30% revenue to their business. Some people and this is particularly in the business space it's going to mean that your business is about five or 10 times bigger. So, like for some markets, there's a real demand for the high ticket coaching and people will pay a lot more for it and in some niches it's like people really want it, but it's like an add-on. The courses are still the main offering. What do you think it is for you, Like what percentage of your revenue now comes from the high ticket stuff versus the low ticket stuff?

Speaker 1:

I think now it's something like 50-50. Okay, because this is where I want to go and it's the same thing here. My revenue reflects who I am. Um, before it was 100% the high ticket and now sometimes I just sell um a workshop or online course. So now it's more 50, 50 and um, and I'm quite fine with it because I don't want to spend time in sales calls anymore, or very little time. Yeah, and if I can, I'm thinking about automating as much as possible some low-ticket offer funnel and then, for the high-ticket, just reach out to people that are already in my ecosystem, something like that. So, yes, currently it's 50, 50 and uh, and I'm quite happy with that.

Speaker 2:

Nice what's any challenges that you've got at the moment? What's anything that's difficult for you at the moment with your email marketing and your funnels?

Speaker 1:

it's, uh, finding the time to to do everything between the painting and, uh, also, the the selling the funnel. What kind of offer do I want to craft? And um, it's always a balance to find between, oh, I, I need to sell something, but at the same time, what do I want to sell? So I'm trying to transform everything that I don't want to do into okay. So in what form would you like to do it? So this is a challenge. I find myself sometimes struggling between okay, what should I sell? What should I talk about on my YouTube video? What kind of lead magnet should I promote? Because I have so many things going on, and, at the same time, I also want to automate things. So I need to find time in order to learn automation, learn ai as well. So these are the kind of thing that I'm struggling with, but I think it's a very healthy struggle, actually good good, okay, I like that.

Speaker 2:

If you have been listening to this and you uh would like to know a little bit more about how to run your email promotions, then I've got a download free download for you, because we've talked a lot about the philosophy that Remy's got here and the kind of approach he's taken, but we haven't talked as much about the tactical details. If you want to download a guide about email promotions and you can get that at datadrivenmarketingco, slash emails and, like I said, if you want to know more about, like, selling high ticket stuff, then drop me an email. I'll send you through a few resources. I'll send you through, like a funnel map of the funnel that we recommend the structure. There's something called the hundred. If you haven't read it, there's a book called hundred million dollar offer from Alex Hormozy, and I've created a workbook that goes alongside that, that helps you design your hundred million dollar offer. That allows you to sell more through your sales calls as well. So I'll send you through that as well.

Speaker 2:

Remy, this has been awesome. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing your journey and your experience with everybody. Uh, is there anywhere that people should go to check you out, or is it just like. No, it's all in French. It's not going to work for you, don't worry about it.

Speaker 1:

It's all in French and it's fine. If you found something that was useful for your own business, then I'm very happy with that, or your own business, then I'm very happy with that. And also I would like to add something to what you just said. If you listen to me, sometimes people say, oh, it feels like you make things effortlessly, very naturally, and when something comes out, you just do it. But actually it doesn't work like that. Actually, I'm struggling with a lot of stuff and before I succeeded in doing things effortlessly, I used to follow very structured templates, just like you said A very structured email, promotion, this email, okay, the cost of inaction, and how the future pays in, just after the workshop, what you are going to get, how you can transform any feature into benefits. So I've been working a lot around that and now I think it's just like watercolor and it's just like.

Speaker 1:

I have two daughters and the little one is learning how to write, and when you write, you have to learn the techniques first. You have to learn the structure how you create an A, how you create a B before crafting a novel, before writing a book. So you have to learn the technique first, just like you mentioned, john, and then after a point you realize, okay, this I don't like, this I like. And then, as time goes by, you use less and less techniques consciously because you use it more unconsciously, and then you let some space and some room for authenticity, for some spontaneity. And it's exactly the same in watercolor. It's exactly the same. You learn the technique first, and then you let the technique flow into you and to a point where you can let yourself speak through watercolor. Wow.

Speaker 2:

That's deep man. I'm going to go lie on a hammock and try and contemplate that. All right, thank you so much, remy, for coming on, really really appreciate your time. Thank you, as always, for listening. Love you guys. I get lots of emails from people who listen to the podcast. If you want to drop me an email, tell me about your business and what you're working on, then please do. John at data driven marketingco, I always love that and we will see you guys next time. Goodbye, bye, bye.