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The Art of Selling Online Courses
The Art of Selling Online Courses is all about online courses.
The goal of this podcast is to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. We are interviewing successful business owners, asking them questions on how they got to the point where they are right now, and checking how their ideas can help you improve your online course!
The Art of Selling Online Courses
How To Build An Audience That Actually Buys
🚀 Work With Me - https://datadrivenmarketing.co/done-for-you
Most people build audiences that just consume content. They get thousands of followers but barely make any sales.
Sinem Günel does it differently. She's built a six-figure writing business by focusing on one simple principle: get people to buy something small first, then they're 20 times more likely to buy again.
In this episode, Sinem breaks down how she helps coaches and consultants turn their expertise into courses and high-ticket programs - starting with offers as low as $50.
We dive into why your past buyers are your most valuable asset and how to nurture them properly. Sinem shares the confidence issue that stops most people from selling high-ticket offers, and why some clients explicitly DON'T want your course and will actually pay more for less content. She also explains how to get inbound leads through content instead of cold outreach, and the strategy behind building a multi-tier business from low-ticket to $5k+ coaching.
If you're creating content but struggling to convert your audience into paying customers, this one's for you.
🔗 https://writebuildscale.com
Want help building your sales funnel and email marketing? Book a free strategy session: https://datadrivenmarketing.co/survey
🤝 Get In Touch
If you'd like to talk more about how you can grow your course business, email me at john@datadrivenmarketing.
People who do buy our lower ticket offers, they're likely to then also invest in something else. A lot of them are actually inbound leads. They end up messaging us because of our content. Lower ticket offers, monetization-wise, they don't play a massive role. Number-wise, it's usually just as you said, it's a signal. Someone purchased a you know$30,$50 product, they are our hottest leads in the left. They are the people we pay more attention to.
SPEAKER_00:If you have a list of people of whom some are buyers and some have not bought before, the buyers' list is 20 times more likely to buy the next thing. They've bought from you before, they liked you, they trusted you, they've got good experience, they gave you some money, and they get more value back. And they're like, cool, great! What else do you got? Hello and welcome to the art of selling online courses. We are here to share winning strategies and secret hacks for the top performers in the online course industry. My name is John Ainsworth, and today's guest is CNML. Now, CNEM is a writer, entrepreneur, and co-founder of Write BuildScale, a publication and a business that helps online creators grow and monetize their audience, which is something we work on a lot here. She built a six-digger writing business turning her content into product, systems, and communities, and today she teaches creators how to do the same without burning out. CNM, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_01:Hi, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00:So, who is it? Talk me through in a little bit more detail. Who do you help with your courses and what kind of problem are you solving for them?
SPEAKER_01:Ideally, you are a coach, consultant, expert who is really passionate about a specific field, a specific part of your knowledge, and you want to take that knowledge into the online world. So a lot of our clients are, you know, they they have this deep expertise. They've been working in that field for a long time, but they haven't done anything in the online world. And what we do is basically help them get their message out into the world because they've been used to doing one-on-one work and there is a leverage that they can build.
SPEAKER_00:So, what kind of model do you use? Do you get them to do like group coaching or online coaching? Or like are you are you like how does it work? What do you support them to do?
SPEAKER_01:Very different, actually. We have clients that we help build uh low-ticket offers first because monetization is not their primary goal in the beginning. We help other clients um start off with higher-tiered one-on-one coaching programs. Um, some, of course, build courses. Um, what we love to teach is particularly mini courses, um, so a really specific outcome that the um course viewer can basically achieve. Um, we found that that works really well for our audience because they do want to build courses and the different kinds of digital products, but it can be really overwhelming to build this massive course. And we found that mini courses, it's easy to create, but it's also easier to communicate the value, so it's easier to sell, and they can create wins for their customers more easily because it's usually a very specific hands-on topic.
SPEAKER_00:So, what's kind of the requirement for working with you guys? Is it to be an expert or is it an expert plus they've started building some kind of an audience? Like you're helping them to kind of build the audience as well.
SPEAKER_01:We help them build their audience. Not necessarily a requirement, but the best place to start is you at least at least you can articulate who you want to help through your content. That's the ideal starting point. We can help you figure out how exactly your messaging um should position you or what kind of content will help you best reach that that target audience. But if you're like, oh, I just want to write and do online stuff, it's gonna be hard to find that starting point, right? So ideally, you're at least you have your expertise and you know, okay, this is what I want to create content about. Or you say you're deeply curious about something. You don't need to be an expert yet, but you need to have a genuine curiosity and passion about a topic so that you're really willing to spend lots and lots of hours kind of exploring that specific field.
SPEAKER_00:Where are you helping people to build an audience? I know you do a lot on Substack, right?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly. We've been on Substack for the past year. That's a large part of our um content library and the efforts that we've that we spend building our content, and that's also what we help our clients do because we see that it's easier than on most other platforms right now if you focus on writing specific content, like written content. Um we've been on Medium for a very long time. That's what we helped a lot of writers do over the past five years. Um most like the majority of our clients and our audience, they want to primarily write. So we are focusing on platforms that help them prioritize writing, and then if they use other outlets, that's fine. But we always start with the written content.
SPEAKER_00:Do you think that you said that like most of your clients want primarily to write? Do you think that's because you're talking about that? So the people you're attracting are the ones who want to write, or is there something about the type of people that you work with? Because like nearly all of our clients are YouTubers, and then secondarily is like Instagram. So that's really interesting to hear. Like writing is somehow out of fashion at the moment, you know, in our world, in the people that I'm working with, but you're saying like no, everybody wants to write. So why do you think that is?
SPEAKER_01:I wouldn't say everybody wants to write, but yeah, that's that's our messaging and it's the people we are attracting. I mean, it's in the brand name, right? We're write-built skills, so we always start with writing. Um I mean, I am on YouTube now, but for me, even YouTube has a strong writing focus, actually, when you start writing the script, because as an educational YouTuber, the writing part, the script has, you know, is a kind of bulk of the creation process. Uh, but yeah, our our audience typically they don't want to do video, especially short form video, for example. Um looking at me, most of my clients and most of the people who consume large parts of our content, they are all of them are like double my age. They don't want to play around in Canva and stuff. They they are really passionate about their expertise. They know what they're talking about, but they want to get it across clearly and simply. And they're fine kind of figuring out all the tech that goes into building an online business. Um, but they are a lot of them actually tell us they loved writing as a kid or they loved writing um at a specific part in their career, but it kind of got lost, and now they're combining this lost passion with their existing knowledge and whatever they want to help their audience achieve. And it just seems to click really well for most of them.
SPEAKER_00:So then what's the next step? Let's say somebody is going down the model of creating courses, um, whether it's the the mini courses, like you're saying, or the slightly bigger ones, what's kind of the next thing that you're teaching someone to do? They've started building an audience, they're building a course, like how are they how are they selling the course to their audience? What's your model?
SPEAKER_01:We usually say there are two ways, and which way they pick will depend on their personality, on their goals, and a lot of different factors. So either we help them build out the course because they already have something very specific in mind, or they have lots of resources they have used in the offline world and they basically want to turn that into a course. Um, if quick monetization is a goal, we will try to make sure that the course is actually priced higher, or there is a group coaching element, or even a one-on-one element to it, and they can sell even without having a large audience. That might be uh DM outreach, it might be collaborations, it might be affiliate partnerships, a lot of other options. Um, or they say they don't feel confident or comfortable, you know, selling a higher priced product now. And for some, higher priced can even mean like a$500 course. And they want to start with very uh low-ticket offers first, then we will make sure that they have a solid content strategy, they are building their audience more quickly, and they can still start experimenting with those lower ticket offers, but they'll have to know that monetization will just take longer.
SPEAKER_00:What do you one of the things that I bang on about on this podcast, and I've started getting through to a few people, I talked to a lot of people about this individually, is like selling higher ticket offers. Because nearly all of our clients, right? Nearly everybody I talk to is they're in the course space, they've got teachable or they've got thinkific or kajabi or something like that. They're hosting their courses, they love the idea of I'm selling this thing and I the delivery's so easy, you just don't have to do any delivery, it's just like all online, and it's great, right? It is great, but from a financial point of view, if you have a high-ticket offer on the back end of that, you make so much more money. Like there's uh uh Scott from Scott's Base Lessons, a client of ours, he came on the podcast a while ago, and he'd added a million dollars in revenue to his head, he already had a multi-million dollar business, so it's not like a you know starting from scratch, but he added a million dollars in revenue by adding in a like high-ticket program. So he was selling his like$39 a month membership, and then he sold a$10,000 a year uh high-ticket thing. I've just helped uh my friend uh who's running a another music business. He was like, he's kind of just getting going. He's like 18 months in, something like that. And he was like, I could do really do with some more money. And he he set up a high-ticket offer of like, you know, a year's coaching and some one-to-one lessons and all this kind of thing. And he's like added another, you know, like I think over$10,000 in revenue so far in the last week by doing that when he was like, you know, it's building up the course sales to that level takes ages. What do you say to people? How do you get people on board with this idea of like are you just saying to somebody if they want to do the one-to-one or group coaching or whatever, cool, great, we'll help you to do it? Or are you like trying to get people on board? And in which case, how do you sell the concept of that?
SPEAKER_01:Uh, we actually do both. Uh it's funny you mentioned this because yesterday we hosted a workshop all about how to set up and sell your first high-ticket offer because we want our people to think about it a lot more. Um, especially if we're talking about people who have a deep expertise who are not just like dabbling around. They have proof of concept, they have worked with a lot of people offline, they have coached them, they have led groups, they can help others, and that's worth paying a higher price for. But um, oftentimes it's actually a confidence issue. It's like, can I really charge like I don't know, three grand, five grand, whatever it is, to to coach somebody online? Is it really worth it? Is it going to be worth it?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think is it worth it for the person paying for it?
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Like interesting. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:How would that transaction happen? Because even um our coaches, consultants, um, those people that I call experts, of course, some of them they had their own practices, they've been self-employed, but a lot of them have not been self-employed or haven't been in an entrepreneurial journey so far. So even if they have worked with clients, it's been in a you know traditional employment status. So they did they have never been the person actually charging the client, which now is a significant shift, right? Yeah. And we like the I mean, if you do the math, it should be very logical. But I find that usually it's more of an emotional t topic in terms of can I charge this much? How will like why would anybody pay that much? And you basically always have to uh remind yourself of what are they saving by by getting that transformation so much faster, right? It's pretty easy to articulate that transformation when you're in the business marketing space because usually you save time, you make more money more quickly, so the ROI is quite obvious or can be quite obvious. It's not that easy to articulate when you are in a health, wellness, fitness, um, in parenting relationships. You just have to dig a little bit deeper to kind of articulate that value for your audience um or for your potential customer, but then also kind of convince yourself that um it's it's fine and you are going to be able to deliver the value of that high amount that you are charging.
SPEAKER_00:And I I think it's such a it isn't it's the same kind of pushback I get from people. It's like that, oh I nobody will pay that much, or you know, how is it? How are people it's like because people some people have money and they want to solve the problem faster and they want your help? It's like that's kind of it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there there's there's so many things where I'm like, why the hell do people pay for that, right? And it's it's not even always expensive things. Um sometimes it's very low-priced things, like if we look at lifestyle items and purchases. Um people also just you know what they want that VIP status, they they want to work with you because they've read your content, they've watched your content, and they feel compelled to actually work with you personally. And even if um they could implement everything based on your written content, they want to have that personal touch and they are able to pay for it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And it's like people will pay so much more money to get personal attention along with the the stuff that you're teaching. This for like I was chatting with um my friend Christopher, so he has a musicality uh course business, and uh he was selling courses for he still is selling courses for like two, three hundred dollars, hundred dollars, whatever this kind of thing, right? Normal, standard, teachable prices. And I'd been banging on at him for ages to add in a high-ticket offer, and he kept not doing it. And then he I talked to him one day and he'd started doing a high-ticket offer for$10,000 a year, and I was just like, whoa, that's way more than I was thinking you'd be able to charge. And he's like, it completely changed his business and added loads of like revenue into it, and all these people, and he's like, people would say to him, So what are we gonna cover in this? Is it and he's he's like, exactly the same stuff that I teach in all the courses. We're just gonna like go through it together and we're gonna make sure that you do it. And he said, Oh, like so many of his clients, they had learned all the stuff, they'd taken it and they'd done some bits, but they just weren't doing it all consistently. They didn't have the accountability, they didn't have the feedback, what have you. And it's just like, yeah, that's what that's what people need to like get to the next level. And if someone's got the money to pay for it, then it's like, great, it works. You know, we all know that lots of people don't finish all the online courses. I I still think they're incredibly valuable because you get access to some all of someone's insights for like$200. It's like it can't be on them as well to make sure you finish it. But like, but it's like it is helpful to also get the coaching alongside it as well.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And honestly, what we have also seen, especially in the last, I would say, 16 months or so, is um uh most of our one-on-one, like higher ticket clients, they explicitly don't want the course because they are at a stage where they have taken a lot of courses and they are overwhelmed by the amount of resources that can be available in a course. And they're like, you know, I have an ADHD brain, this is too much. I don't want all the resources and videos. Tell me what to do, and I will do it. And these often do end up being our most successful clients because they basically follow through. But it would be like they know that it would be impossible for them to follow through on a course and be active in a community and engage in a group coaching session because it's too much. And all our programs actually, like anything that is not on the low ticket end, uh, they come with community access, they come with group coaching sessions. But our VIP clients, they explicitly don't want to be part of the community.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, because if if you're paying three grand, five grand for the VIP tier, we're happy to also add you to the community for a quarter. But that's not what they want. They want a step-by-step checklist and they want you to follow up with them in the next call, ask them what they did, what you know, what has worked out, what hasn't worked out. And that's been incredibly valuable to learn as well, because you like when you start out, you might be compelled to just put as much value as possible into a course and just make it as big and valuable as possible, but that's not necessarily what people are looking for. They're different learning experiences, different learning paths. And while a full-blown course is the right choice for some people, other people don't want the content. They want you to kind of hold their hand.
SPEAKER_00:What do you do with your own business in terms of making sales? Because it sounds like you've got a range of these tiers as well. You've got the low-ticket courses, you've got the group coaching, you've got the one-to-one high-ticket stuff. How are you selling to your audience? Is a lot of it through email? Are you doing a lot of DMs like you mentioned earlier? Like what kind of approach are you using?
SPEAKER_01:Very different at different stages. So we obviously have our automated email funnels. Um we do live launches around three times a year. We will do a live webinar where we have affiliate partners who promote the webinar with us, and then we will have a special offer. This is usually for one of our courses that are priced around 500 bucks. Um, with our VIP clients, uh, what we've found lately is a lot of them are actually inbound leads. They end up messaging us because of our content. Um, and then through a DM conversation, we figure out that the VIP tier might be a good fit for them. That's what we call our higher ticket offers, is it's usually a VIP tier. Um and then either there is a discovery call or they go straight into the coaching package and start working with us in the one-on-ones.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So emails and webinars at the low end and kind of direct messages, a lot of people messaging you is kind of some of the higher ticket stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so that's that's actually been surprising because we found like because we have sold our a higher ticket office mostly through DMs, we thought, okay, let's have more DM conversations because we're running the business as a team of three, and all three of us are creating content. So there are we reach a lot of different audience members who just resonate with one of us or one message or one voice, um, and they're still in the list and they they are aware of our offers, right? Um, but we found that even the people who engage with our content, DMing them and kind of trying to filter is extremely time consuming, right? Even until you get to the point where you figure out if someone is looking for support, and then you have to figure out if they'd be willing to pay a premium fee. But the people who reach out to us, even if it's a comment, you know, if if it there is a meaningful comment, we try to follow up. We try to be really careful about the comments on our content or the email responses we get. We always encourage responses. We want to learn if you know people are applying something that we teach in a video or in an article. We always encourage them to share what has been most helpful, what's what's their biggest struggle, and we try to follow up exactly there because those are people who are more likely to then respond back to us and where we're more likely to have a meaningful conversation which might end up in a higher ticket sale.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, so if some so rather than you going out and DMing a whole load of people, because a lot of them won't be the right people, you're trying to follow up with the people who've messaged you or commented on your posts or this kind of thing. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we do something kind of similar. We got something where we're we're always looking for people who are raising their hand in some way. So there'll be like lots of opportunities in different places for someone to kind of show that they're interested. So maybe somebody registers for a webinar, or we have a QA session, or we have a um what else do we do? We sell like a low-ticket uh when we sell a low-ticket course. We'll follow up with those people to be like, hey, I saw that you whatever signed up for such and such a thing. Um how did you find it? You know, what are you working on at the moment? And then you can just more easily see because those are the people who are they've they've raised their hand to say, I'm interested in some help right now. So that's one part of the puzzle. It doesn't mean they're the right fit, doesn't mean that they want to pay more money for it, but it's like one part of the puzzle. The other ones I do is when somebody fills in, someone signs up for a lead magnet, we've got on our confirmation page after that a form where they can tell us a bit more about themselves. And so if they fill that in and they are running a kind of business that sounds like a really good fit, then I'll follow up with those people as well. And so that's like just a kind of an ongoing trickle, kind of always something happening there that occasionally you go, Oh, yes, that's you're exactly the kind of person we should be having a proper conversation with as well. Interesting. Okay. What do you find for you guys? Where does most of your revenue come from? Is it from the higher ticket stuff that you've got or the lower ticket offers, or is it kind of a 50-50? What's about split?
SPEAKER_01:So our live launches are usually when you know a big chunk of revenue comes in within a very short period. Obviously, that's usually a one-week promo period. Um, also during our live launches, when you purchase a product, an online course, you get the option to upgrade to the VIP tier, which will then come with one-on-one calls. So some of our VIP clients also join the course, but then they either immediately upgrade or they immediately message us saying, Will this offer be available later on? If I'm you know halfway done through the course and you know, then I want some personal support. So even if like it's a bit harder to track because if a client purchases the VIP program a month after joining the course, but they joined the course through a life launch, that's um that's happening a lot of times too. Our lower ticket offers, monetization-wise, they don't play a massive role. Uh, primarily also because we only grow organically. So we don't have a massive amount of low-ticket sales number-wise. It's usually just, as you said, it's a signal. If someone purchased a you know,$30,$50 product, they are our hottest leads in the next launch. They are the people we pay more attention to. They are um also on Substack, we have a paid tier, for example, it's$10 a month, or on a discounted plan, it might be way less uh on an annual plan. Um that's not a whole lot of money that we that we make there. We're at 600 paid subscribers right now. But these are like these are kind of our premium readers, our premium subscribers that uh we know have the highest potential to purchase anything else that we will offer. But the bulk of the revenues, courses, and then the higher ticket offers. But the higher ticket offers are still relatively new to us as well. So that's something we've been paying more attention to for the last three months.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And we'll keep experimenting more with it in the future.
SPEAKER_00:It's one of those ones I find it quite interesting to see the split because every business, there are some people who will buy the low ticket and some people who pay for the high ticket. But every business, every industry, the the kind of percentage will change, the balance will change, you know. So from what I've seen at least. Um Do you ever see Perry Marshall stuff about this, about the 80-20 curve?
SPEAKER_01:No. So I know I know the 80-20 principle in general, but okay.
SPEAKER_00:So the 8020 curve is kind of based on that, but it's it's if you look at the structure of it, instead of it being um it it's basically like a uh a parabola, I think that's the right word, where it goes, you know, up uh like dramatically all the way up into the on the right hand side. And it's if you look at if you go to 8020curve.com, actually, I'm gonna pull this up. So I'll describe this for you if you are watching, if you are listening and you're not watching, um, but I just want to show you kind of if it's I can get it uh how this works. And if you're watching on YouTube, you can kind of follow along. So let me share screen. Alright, so the idea is Perry Marshall who wrote AT20 Sales and Marketing. Great, great book about like how to use AT20 and have you read it?
SPEAKER_01:No, no, I have it on my Kindle. I downloaded it a couple of weeks ago.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, really? Okay, cool. So it's a great, great book about um using the AT20 uh rule within marketing. So like every chapter is so short, so to the point, but it's like 15, 20 different ways of using 8020 rule within marketing and business, which is absolutely fantastic. The idea of it is something he calls the uh espresso machine principle. So if you go to Starbucks, everybody's buying a cup of coffee for like whatever, I don't know, five bucks, right? Ten bucks, I don't know. Somebody in that group will buy the espresso machine that they use for making the coffee themselves. You can pretty much mathematically predict it, as in if you had this many people paying ten dollars, then you get one person in whatever it is, 200 will buy the the$2,000 espresso machine, something like that. I think that it's not my experience so far at least has been it's not quite as simple as that. That the numbers kind of vary a bit. B to C. If you're doing consumer-based stuff and you're selling the low-ticket courses, a small percentage will buy the very expensive things. Yeah. The coaching, whatever. But if you're helping people to make money, then a much higher percentage will buy the more expensive thing because they can get that money back faster. That's been my experience with it. Like if I look at my business, a tiny percentage of our revenue comes from the low-ticket offers that we have, the courses and what have you. Whereas the vast majority comes from like one-to-one coaching and done-for-you services that we're doing. So loads more people are willing to pay for that kind of expensive thing. And that makes sense because we can make them a lot more money back. But if they were learning how to play the classical guitar, then I think it's a smaller percentage.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, absolutely. But at the same time, um what we have seen for years is people who do buy our lower ticket offers, they're likely to then also invest in something else. Like this simple principle of buyers buy again, I think, especially in the creator economy. Um, no matter if you're in the creator space and talk about making money or about any other topic, um, if you get people to trust you and invest in lower ticket offers and they actually enjoy what they purchase, they're so much more likely to invest later on. We have like percentage-wise, a very low percentage of our overall customers have only purchased with us once. A lot of them, like we we see that so often. Someone has joined a paid challenge for 20 bucks like three years ago, and that it was a completely different subject, maybe. Maybe they joined a webinar or it yeah, challenge about writing on medium, but now they three years later they purchase a course or coaching package about writing on Substack. If they follow along for so long and they already had one positive experience, they are just waiting for the right moment to invest. And sometimes it just clicks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When we've done studies of it before with our with our clients, we found that of if you have a list of people of whom some are buyers and some have not bought before, the buyers list is 20 times more likely to buy the next thing than the non-buyers. And some of it is some of those people in the non-buyers list, they just don't tend to buy that kind of thing or whatever. But a big part of it is they've bought from you before, they liked you, they trust you, they got a good experience, they gave you some money and they got more value back, and they're like, cool, great. What else you got? You know, so that's like a that's a really big part of it, I think. Tell me about for your for your email marketing, your funnels, your webinars, etc., what's something that you're working on improving? What's something you'd like to be better in there?
SPEAKER_01:Our Evergreen funnels are a working process right now because we have um built and launched several different offers over the past year, and we have always live launched them first, and now we're basically in the process of also setting up the evergreen funnels. Um, we have done typical like email courses or freebies and then email sales sequence in the past, but we have lots of room for experimentation there, whether it's pre-recorded webinars or doing webinars a lot more often, live webinars. Um and all the other ways that you can basically sell your products on Evergreen, those are still up for experimentation for us because um yeah, we we have the offers up now, we have the proof of concept, we have live launched them two or three times, and now it's time to also put them behind the email funnels so that we we free up some of our time.
SPEAKER_00:So, what's the challenge with that? Is it just a case of go through and set everything up, or is there some stuff that you're trying to figure out and uh make sense of?
SPEAKER_01:With the email sales file itself, it's just go through it and set it up. Um everything that we haven't done before is basically let's validate, let's try to find out what's the biggest potential sales item that is worth exploring first or most. Um, for example, Evergreen webinars, do they even still work? You know, do people do people pay attention to them? Um are people sick and tired of watching something pre recorded? We basically don't know as of now because we haven't done recorded webinars. Um yeah, all the other elements, right? We record a challenge, um surveys, everything that you can do on the evergreen end.
SPEAKER_00:Gotcha. Yeah, we haven't done evergreen ones in a little while. So the webinar when we do webinars, they still work gang like gangbusters, they're fantastic. Live? Live, yeah. Well we haven't done evergreen ones in a little while. Uh my experience with them when I've done them before is that they would convert something like 50 to 60% as well as the live ones. Because you don't have, you know, the feedback and everybody in there together and they people kind of know it's not live, what have you. It varies quite a lot by market. So I've got a friend who uh runs uh language courses in Slovenia. And Slovenia is not as au fae with all of the modern marketing techniques as the English speaking world because they haven't been bombarded with so many because there aren't so many people trying to sell stuff online in Slovenia. So you can kind of get away with a lot of stuff that maybe worked really well ten years ago. You can still do it there, and it's great. You could just always look at well, what was working ten years ago in the in English speaking countries and do that, and it's like great, just all all works great. So that's quite interesting to see older audiences, people where they're less aware that it's automated, what have you. That tends to kind of you know l lead to it working better. Selling to marketers, oh, nightmare. Because marketers know all the all the techniques and whatever, and they're like sick of it before anybody else's. So I think that kind of has an effect on it. So it'd be really interesting to see for you how does the how does doing evergreen work?
SPEAKER_01:I mean, it has worked well in the past, but it's always been um like the last thing with it. We're never focused on evergreen because we always like we had a life launch, then we were focused on kind of serving the the cohort or the members and just doing our regular content up until the next live launch and the next pre-launch phase essentially. But now that we have so many different offers and we all like we constantly have ideas for offers because we get these signals from our audience, right? And because we have like we see it so strongly, what we said before, you know, buyers buying again and our existing customers being really willing to invest into the next thing that we create. Of course, we want to keep creating new offers to help them on, you know, with the next issue that they might face. Uh, but then if we have we if we create a product, we don't want to, you know, spend dozens of hours creating and launching it and then just leaving it aside. Of course, we want it to keep serving people and keep keep being put in front of people. And if you look at a typical content calendar in any business, you just have you know, if you look at the weeks you have in a year, you don't have that many promotional phases if you don't want to constantly bombard your audience, right? Yeah. And that's where Evergreen funnels would just play a really important role in our content as well, simply to make sure that people are, you know, being funneled here, being funneled here, being funneled there. If they are interested in the topic of whatever we're doing for the pre-launch, then they can join the live launch, whatever is happening there, whether it's a challenge, a boot camp, a webinar, but then that might not be the thing they are currently looking to learn more about. Then they are better off in the Evergreen funnel, checking out a pre-recorded webinar or doing a pre-recorded challenge because that's a much better fit for their current stage.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Cool. If someone wants to go check out more about what you're doing and and uh I guess mostly read what you're what you're up to. There you said you've got the YouTube channel as well now. Where should they be going?
SPEAKER_01:Uh you can go to writebuildskill.com. Uh that will take you to our substack right now, and there you can actually see all the stuff that's going on, everything that we're publishing, written as well as video.
SPEAKER_00:Perfect. Amazing. Thanks so much for coming on and sharing your wisdom with everybody and what's been working for you. Um, as always, dear listener, thank you so much for listening. Really, really appreciate you. Um we will see you next time. Thank you so much, CM.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for having me.