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The Art of Selling Online Courses
The Art of Selling Online Courses is all about online courses.
The goal of this podcast is to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. We are interviewing successful business owners, asking them questions on how they got to the point where they are right now, and checking how their ideas can help you improve your online course!
The Art of Selling Online Courses
202 Here’s How I 6X'd My Course Pass Rate From 10% to 60%
🔥 Work With Me - https://datadrivenmarketing.co/done-for-you
Andrew Stotz went from a 10% pass rate to 60% by doing something most course creators are terrified to do - kicking students out with no refund.
In this episode, Andrew shares how he transformed his Valuation Masterclass from an on-demand course that barely anyone finished into a cohort-based bootcamp where students write 20-30 page research reports on four different companies.
His secret? "The valuation masterclass is about transformation, not information." And he means it - students who don't keep up get kicked out on Monday morning, no questions asked.
We dive into how Andrew built this intense accountability system, why he dresses up in military uniform for graduation ceremonies, and how one student from Nigeria who didn't even own a computer ended up working for Bank of America.
If you're tired of students buying your course and never finishing it, this one's for you.
🔗 Connect with Andrew:
- Website: https://academy.astotz.com/
- Podcast: https://myworstinvestmentever.com/
I took my pass rate from ten percent to about sixty percent. Whoa. I was voted number one analyst in Thailand. So I know what it's like to go from zero to number one. I've increased price over time, and basically the price was 1,500 roughly, and now it's 3,000. I decided I would just tell them exactly what Emmy and Horterfield told me, and I said, the valuation masterclass is about transformation, not information. I have an accountability discussion on Fridays when I meet live, and then I tell them if you're not caught up on Monday, you're kicked out, no questions asked, no refund. I deliver transformation that leads to lasting change.
SPEAKER_01:Hello and welcome to the Art of Selling Online Courses. We are here to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. My name is John Ainsworth, and today's guest is Andrew Stokes. Andrew, tell us about your course business. What kind of courses are you selling? Who are you helping?
SPEAKER_02:Yes, so thanks for having me on, and hello to everybody listening and viewing. And um basically, I came to Thailand in 1992 to teach finance. And it's 33 years later I've been teaching finance. Now, after one year, I realized I'm not going to make any money as a university lecturer in Thailand. So I went to work as an analyst. And I had a 20-year career as an analyst, and I rose up over time to become a head of research, and then I was voted number one analyst in Thailand. So I know what it's like to go from zero to number one. And what an analyst does is, you know, we spot stocks that are interesting, we write research on them, we build valuation models on them, and we write reports, and then we bring those to institutional investors in London and New York, and I traveled all around the world talking to those guys. And so all along, I have been teaching at university equity valuation. And in 2017, I was standing in front of 14 students at a university thinking, what am I doing? You know, half the students didn't show up, and you know, other, you know, part of them were late. And I was just thinking, I want to make a bigger impact. And that's when I moved, that's when my what my colleague, Alex, he said, why don't we create the valuation masterclass? So we grabbed the uh valuation masterclass.com website and we put the course online in 2017. And that's when we started, and that's kind of my my origin story. But, you know, it was ups and downs. And what I saw of with on-demand courts was that the pass rate is, you know, if you're lucky, it's 10%. You know, it's hard to keep for people to keep discipline. And my course is not a short course, you know. I mean, there's a lot of content there. And so I was kind of frustrated over time that I really wasn't making, I still wasn't making the impact. And then I took Amy Porterfield's course. Uh, and when I did that, she gave me like the permission, I got it. Like, ah, build a community, deliver a transformation. And in COVID time, I decided I'm gonna bring this into a cohort. And I I asked for people in, you know, around that were interested on my Facebook. And I had, you know, eight people show up at my house at 7 a.m. on Monday morning, and we did six weeks where I just winged it and taught it live with all this different stuff, gave them assignments and stuff, and then that was valuation masterclass boot camp zero, I call it ground zero. And then I moved it online as a cohort-based business, and now we're just completing boot camp number 22. So I've been through a lot of iterations uh of how I teach people how to value companies and build a competitive advantage in company valuation.
SPEAKER_01:So, how are these people finding you? Do you like build an audience on YouTube or Instagram? Or you mentioned Facebook? Like where where are people finding out about you from?
SPEAKER_02:It's it's almost all LinkedIn. Interesting. Okay. Yeah. And um just because I I just never did much on the other other spaces. And so I have, you know, posted lots of different stuff on LinkedIn. I wouldn't say I'm you know I'm I'm not a shining star of of generating, you know, billions of dollars from it. But what I've done is, you know, I put out interesting posts and people said they're interested. And then I I I also, you know, one of the things that I've done, so so let me let me go to some interesting things that I've done that I think the audience could benefit from. The first is I took my pass rate from 10% to about 60%. Whoa. Okay. That was shifting from on-demand to cohort-based. Okay. Yeah. And I, you know, Amy Porterfield talked about transformation, delivering a transformation. So I realized in one of my first boot camps, I launched the first night when we went live, you know, with students from around the world. And I said, I decided I would just tell them exactly what Amy Porterfield told me, and that is, and I said, the valuation masterclass is about transformation, not information. And I repeated that about four or five times, and I asked them at the end of the night, what did I say the valuation masterclass is about? And they they were like, huh? And I realized I had to repeat it like six times. So the the next time I launched, I repeated it six times and I asked them, you know, throughout the the session, and then they remembered. And now I repeat that every time I go live with the students, I talk to them about it. And then when we get to the graduation ceremony where I dress up in a military uniform with a hat, and and basically I say, Welcome to the evaluation masterclass boot camp graduation ceremony. I want to salute you for making it through. So I built this intensity and I've built this whole structure around accountability and all of that. And that basically helped them stay engaged for the six weeks of the valuation masterclass boot camp.
SPEAKER_01:And how does that you mentioned that people turned up at your house at 7 a.m. on Monday morning? Did they stay there till 6 p.m. on Friday afternoon? Like how how how long were people there at four or three in the weeks?
SPEAKER_02:That was just the first one that we did live. Then we went online after that. So yeah. Um and but that was from 6, uh, 7 a.m. until 3:30 in the afternoon. You know, I basically I worked them hard, you know. And so that was just kind of the beginning. And I I realized, you know, one of the things that I I believe is that people will rise to the challenge that we bring them. And I really truly believe that our potential is huge. And so I even another thing that I've included in the boot camp, many things that I've included over the time is I I have something called the standards of excellence. And I introduce it on the first night and I say, This is bad behavior, this is good behavior. And, you know, for a lot of young people, they they didn't, they haven't been told, like, turn on your camera when you show up. You don't have your camera on in the cohort group, I'm gonna kick you out. You can watch the recording. You want to pay a lot of money, don't sit and watch a recording, that's fine. But if you're gonna be in the group, you need to engage. When we send out a message, you need to respond. You know, so we have five important accountability type of things, teamwork type of things, because I'm also trying to help them not only build a uh a skill and valuation, but I'm also trying to help them to build a character that will allow them to get the job that they want, whether that's their first job in finance. So I have three, three people. Um I was just listening to uh the lady, uh, what was her name that was talking about the avatars? Uh no, there was a guy talking about the avatars. I forgot his name now, but uh he was saying, you know, you gotta get your avatars.
SPEAKER_01:Probably Yosef.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, that was it. And my avatars are very clear starters, advancers, and switchers. Starters are people who are trying to get a start their career in finance. So think university graduates from finance. But are not happy with the progress of their career development. And I know I know how to go to the top, right? And then switchers, these are mainly engineers and accountants who want to move their career into finance. But every time they apply for a job, people go, Why should I even look at you? You don't have any education or experience in finance. I solved their problem.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So how much does it cost someone to go through the the cohort now? And is it still six weeks? And then how how you just stop there and and you answer that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So it's it's been uh it's I've increased the price over time, and basically the price was 1,500 roughly, and now it's$3,000. And it was six weeks for the first 21 boot camps, and this is 22, and it's the first time I've expanded it to 12 weeks because I've realized I have more value to give. And I realized that I'm not actually getting what I want. What I want is a r a complete transformation, a six-week transformation, already uh, you know, roughly 60% pass rate is great. And but what I really want is for them to go out and get top-notch jobs or get an advancement in their career or get a job in finance if they're a switcher. And I know I need more time with them, and so I've I've really focused in on that. And and so far it's gone well. Now, my pass rate's gonna probably end up being instead of 60%, it's gonna be 40%. But you know, that's part of what I'm going at is trying to, you know, push them. Now all of the so if my pass rate in the past was 60%, that means 40% either dropped out or I kicked them out because you cannot remain in the boot camp if you're not up to date. So I have an accountability discussion on Fridays when I meet live, and then I tell them if they're not caught up on Monday, you're kicked out, no questions asked, no refund. And so I have had, you know, 40% that have either quit or been kicked out, no refund. I do give a seven-day refund for the first, you know, seven days, but I would say I probably had out of a thousand students that have come into the evaluation masterclass boot camp, I've had probably three requests for refunds and within the seven days.
SPEAKER_01:And then what those people who stay in but then get kicked out, do they get access to all the recordings afterwards? Or like what are they what do they kind of get? How does that work?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So the way it way it works is say, look, you're not up to date. I warn you, you've seen it, and so therefore, I'm gonna take you out of the boot camp. You're gonna go into the on-demand course. So now they're in the on-demand course, and I tell them, look, maybe you have a problem with your family or you know, situation in your life, come back to the next boot camp and I'll give you a discounted price. So it's it's not like just get away from me. As I I always tell people, no blame, no shame, you know, if if it's not the right time or it's not the right place, you know, that's fine. So that's what that's what I do. So they still are engaged. Now they're not seeing the videos from the live sessions, they're just seeing my course content. So one of the things that I love about online courses is that I never want to teach again.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And in that sense, I I record amazing videos of the content, let's say 30 to 50 hours of video, depending on you know how long it the course is. Uh, and I perfected those videos and I drip them to them, and they have to watch those. And if they don't watch them, or if they advance through them by clicking a button to get to the end, I can see that, and they're gonna be in trouble. And so I I just love the idea that the time and so one of my students from boot camp number seven or so, he lives in Egypt, and he was really great, and he said, I want to work on this, and now he runs the whole boot camp. Now I set the curriculum and then I am there for one hour on Monday and one hour on Friday. He does a tutoring session on Tuesday and Thursday. And what I've really come up with is I I used to get a problem, and I think some of the in in the audience may face this problem, is that they want personal feedback. You know, we're we're giving them a lot of content and they're trying to apply it. They want personal feedback. But I realize I can't scale with this, you know. And so I came up with the idea that first thing, as I told my team, I was like, first thing is we really need to clarify weekly projects. This week, this is what you do. So I've now created a video that I do at the beginning of each week that's about 20 minutes. Let me tell you what your assignment for this week is. We walk, I walk them through everything about the assignments and the deadlines and everything. So now we're much more clear and I keep that out of my live session. I used to spend a lot of time explaining the assignment. No, let's just have a great video explaining that. And that way my live session's gonna be a fun, interactive time talking about something related to the financial markets and valuation. And then what I what I then do is all students have to submit their work for the week by midnight on Thursday. So they all have submitted, and then people have to volunteer to present their work on Friday. And so we get two to four volunteers, depending on how complex the work is for that week. Let's say we have four volunteers and then they present the work. I call Friday Feedback Friday, and then I critique their work on Fridays, and then they, you know, everybody's focused, everybody's there, and everybody's like cheering that person because, you know, they're coming up against me. And I'm a top head of research, had top analysts, and I know what I'm talking about. And so I, you know, go, no, that doesn't make sense, and you know, that story doesn't make sense, and your numbers don't match. And but it turns out I don't get any more of the issue of um, you know, complaints that I need, you know, personal feedback. And so that's the way I solved that feedback Friday.
SPEAKER_01:So how does this work in terms of the the process of selling it? So you've got f I saw 45,000 followers on LinkedIn. Yep. So you're posting content there, then what? What happens what happens next?
SPEAKER_02:So we have a an email list and we have like a core sequence that they go through. And basically we start telling them that the course is coming. We we discount the price and say it's gonna be rising over the next couple of you know weeks and months as we get closer to it. And I would say that's a big part of it. There are some people that just reach out um, you know, uh through LinkedIn, through email, and then my students are great advocates, so they recommend people and I give a discount. You know, if a student recommends someone, then they're able to bring a little discount to their friend. And so that's the big way that I've gotten people over the years, you know. And I wouldn't even I I I wouldn't say that, you know, I I don't have a knockout funnel. Now, one of the things I did do is I found an organization to pay me a big chunk of money at the beginning of this year to issue scholarships at low prices to young people. Now, this is a stock exchange of Thailand who wants to get more financial analysts in the market that have logical, you know, the problem is a lot of financial analysts are going into coding and all that, and so we're we're losing them. And if we don't have good financial analysts, we don't have an efficient market. And so I got some funding from the stock market to say we want to fund a scholarship in our name, and then we have a scholarship process, and so the students go through that and we screen them, and then eventually we'll grant them. So we're doing a hundred students this year will come through that scholarship where they the organization paid up front. Student has to still pay a little bit because we want some uh you know, skin in the game, but that's another source, and so I'm I'm working on that. I've also done uh partnerships really, really now it's a platform. I've got students coming in that want a transformation, they want better jobs, they all that. And now I'm doing more outreach to firms. I've had some sponsorships from firms where I can basically deliver a pipeline of students. If a firm in, you know, Tokyo says they want to have uh, you know, 15 new financial analysts within, you know, let's say 14 weeks, you know, or a few months, I can deliver them uh the people they should be interviewing. We can do that through Facebook ads, you know, in Tokyo and bring in the people through a scholarship under that bank's name. And so that's part of what I'm working on expanding because really ultimately what I need to continue to do is continue to make sure that what comes out the end of the valuation masterclass boot camp is exactly what the corporates want and the banks want, investment banks. And as I continue to improve that, then I get paid on both sides and bring value to both sides. And I think one of my arguments, one of my points to the financial institutions is that um I'm testing something beyond competence. I'm testing discipline. And there's plenty of people that you can hire that have a high GPA and and they're gonna crash and burn when they work for you because they're addicted to their phone or they just don't have the discipline to do stuff, and you won't know that. They'll look good on paper. So part of my argument is I can save you the time because I'm putting these young people to the test. And if they can survive, you know they have the the discipline, but also the interest, you know. Ultimately, what we do is the the tangible outcome that they get is they have they have initiated coverage, research coverage on four companies, you know, globally. So they have written a 20 or 30 page report, four of them, on four different companies. They've also recorded them, which originally I just had them submit stuff, but I realized like they're not great at presenting and they need to get better. So every week, every single week in 12 weeks, they have to submit a short three-minute video presenting the work they did that week. And that is amazing because now they start to get much more comfortable in the way that they deliver, you know, online and all that.
SPEAKER_01:So now that you're changing it to 12 weeks, are you changing the price, or was that you change it to 3,000 and that's what is that because you're that's the increase that's the increase from 1,500 to 3,000.
SPEAKER_02:And that's the same thing. Also, I I surveyed the students every single uh after every boot camp and I give them the exact same question. Now that you understand what's in the boot camp, what do you think is the value? And so I've seen that value rise and rise over time, and now I'm ready to, you know, really capture that value.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that makes sense. And how does it work with the payment from the the businesses who want to hire these analysts? Is it only that you're getting paid if they've paid up front for you to find them a cohort, a group who can go through and and in Tokyo or whatever, like you said? Or is there also like a right, I've had these number of people go through, I'm gonna connect you with some of my students and you get a kickback there as well? Or how does how does it work?
SPEAKER_02:It's that that second way is probably just too much trouble.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_02:What what I really want to be able to say is I'm gonna deliver you 10 people that you're gonna interview, and you're gonna pay me, you know, X for that,$10,000, whatever that number is, and that's gonna get you these people. And that's gonna save you costs on you know recruiting. Now, my idea, John, is that I would um I've been thinking about finding a uh a placement service, uh HR type of you know, a recruitment. Now, a lot of them don't necessarily want to deal with, you know, younger people and stuff, which I understand. But if I can find that company that really would love to get these young people, help them, get them in front of companies, it could be a way for them to open doors, and then we have some kind of share of the fee that they're gonna earn where I can deliver to them and then they can do the part that, you know, it's not my expertise, and it's not like um I I really want to be doing helping these guys build their, you know, uh, you know, their profiles and all that, although I help my students with that, but you know, I I would love to partner with someone like that.
SPEAKER_01:It's one of those interesting things in business, isn't it? Where there's all these opportunities that could work, but it's like, well, how much time have I got? Like I've got a thing that's working. Do I just keep doing this? Or should I add in this extra this extra layer? How much work is that to do? Okay, that's interesting. When you are doing these deals like the the what guys in Tokyo that you mentioned, is that something you've done regularly, or is this a new, a totally new thing for you?
SPEAKER_02:It's it's pretty new. I've done probably, let's say, uh, three of those deals in the last two years, and they've been, you know, pretty short term. Okay. And part of what I found was that I I don't think I have enough flow coming out of the boot camp of the caliber that I need. I do have some, but the problem is, you know, let's say say you have say you have a hundred people come in and six sixty of them get to the end. Some of them are still working, they're not even or sorry, still studying. So it's some of them are like they're in fourth year. They're not really eligible right now, so the companies don't want to deal with that. There's plenty of people that just have jobs and they're not actually looking for, you know, what's being offered. Some of them, like one of my companies was a consulting firm. So I did have a student in uh Indonesia or sorry, in in India, and she was, you know, a superstar. And so the the the the firm that was sponsoring was a consulting firm, and I introduced them, and now she runs their you know, a big part of their India business. So, you know, but it's something that I've gotta I've gotta make sure that I get better and better at getting the cohorts. And you know, that's part of the reason why I reached out to you because I really, you know, um listened to your focus and your guests' focus on the selling aspect of it. And, you know, one of the things that I I say, you know, the great book by Simon Sinek Start with Why, you know, it really helped me to think about my why. And my my why really goes back to when I was 17, I was arrested and I was put into a drug rehab. And I got out of that drug rehab and I started getting high again. And this was many years ago, you know. And I grew up in Ohio, and I got out of that drug rehab, started getting high again, then I went to another one, and that was uh like um 45 days. I stayed clean, and then they said, You're so messed up, you need another seven months. So I went to a seven-month treatment center. So it was basically the nine months of my high school year, and I was in rehab. When I graduated uh from rehab was also the day I graduated from high school, and that day, and you know, before that, let's say September uh 15th, 1982, it was my sobriety date. And so I haven't had any alcohol or drugs uh for 40, 43 years. And basically I had a lot of people come along at that time that were either paid or volunteering to help me. And they helped me make a real transformation. I think when you when you get sober at that young of an age, you really get a chance to reboot. You know, when you get sober at 40, it's like everything's messed up and it takes so much work to untangle all the trouble that we've caused. But I was lucky. And so that's part of my why. And that is I deliver transformation that leads to lasting change. And that's it. And so I now have a platform in the valuation masterclass boot camp that's high quality, you know, amazing, 600 positive testimonials, basically. And and I'm ready to deliver that to the world. And so when I listen to what you and your guests are doing, I'm like, I I just felt like uh yeah, I need more of that.
SPEAKER_01:So what's any of the issues for you at the moment? Like what's stopping you from being able to get this out to more people?
SPEAKER_02:You know, I I would say that um ultimately I I think everything in business comes down to leads. If if you're not getting thousands of people coming on to your emails or, you know, into your funnel, you know, it doesn't matter how great your course is and on it. So I think my my whole challenge, and and this is because there's four other parts of my business. I have a another business in Thailand, which is a coffee business. We roast coffee, we got a hundred employees, and I take care of the accounting and finance of that. I've got another business of my life where I'm manage basically$150 million of Thai people's money that are investing, I'm investing outside of uh Thailand. That's a huge responsibility. And I've got another part of my business, which is I produce reports on on companies in Asia that are not covered by financial analysts, and so it's called uncovered Asia. And then I have another part of my business, which is called the Profit Bootcamp, where I help mid-sized family businesses double profit in 12 months, guaranteed, or their money back. And so I got a lot of things going on. I'm good at creating, I'm good at delivering, right? And and and I'm good at marketing and I'm good at selling, but it's just that I don't I don't have the time to put the tools in place. And in some ways, I I often say, I wish I was less creative. Right.
SPEAKER_01:Just come up with one good idea and put it in. A lot of our clients are like that, I think. I feel that a lot of the time. My um my brother came to me one day with a this game. The game was uh you've got, I think it was two minutes. About two minutes, and you've got to think of as many things as you could possibly do with a brick. And that's that's the that's it, right? You just have to write, great, you've got two minutes, go, how many things you need to do? He says, nearly everybody that he plays this with thinks of like two or three things, and then is like, this is a stupid game. I don't even know why we're playing this game. And he said he had like one or two other people who would think of like 10 or 15 things that you could do with a brick, and he thought of like 22. And he was like, Wow, look at that. And then he came to me and he asked me to do it, and I was just like, and then you know, like, here's whatever it was 34 things you could do with a brick, and he's just like, These are ridiculous things. I'm like, Yeah, but they're things you could do with a brick, though, aren't they? You could do that. Yeah, and uh, I was like, I was like, you're hanging out with very different kinds of people to me because like I think almost everybody that I know from business could think of like 30 or 40 things to do with a brick. Like it's just it's just the constant stream of ideas that's almost overwhelming because it's just like, oh my god, there's too, there's too many things that we could do.
SPEAKER_00:We could do this or this or this or this or this. Oh my god, there's so many things.
SPEAKER_01:And uh that's a lot of people that I know. And then there's I guess another segment who are like like nearly everybody I know who runs a business seems to either be ADHD or autistic. It's like it's one or the other, right? And it's not it's not everybody, but it's quite a lot. And and there's another group who are like the the bit of autism where they're like, I don't think of any ideas, but I can lock myself in an office for six months, put my head down, and come out with a whole business completely built. And that's like a very different segment of friends who are like doing it kind of that way. But so I hear you in terms of the like the the there's too much creativity, there's too many ideas, there's too many things you could be doing, it's almost dangerous. That's like a lot of things that you're doing, like four or five different businesses, you know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and I was I was listening to the the guy, I can't remember his name that you interviewed that had 35,000 people in a Facebook group where he's selling uh insurance training. I fairly venting.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, favorite venting.
SPEAKER_02:And it's just like I listened to that and I was like, like he started with selling.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I started with content. You know, in some ways I like to explain, like it's the same thing in my coffee business. Dale, my business partner and I were kind of like engineers, you know. Engineers are gonna, you know, work on it and make it great. I don't want to bring it out to the world until it's, you know. Whereas I had another guy I used to work with, and I tell you, nothing was complete that he brought out. And but he just sold like crazy. I'm like, that guy went far much further than me in his career. And uh I was like, you know, that is a good lesson. And so that's where I'm at. I'm at that, I'm at the create stage is done. It's there, it's running, it's great, and now it's it's scaling. And so I think what what I need to figure out is how do I appeal? I've got I got my avatars very clear, you know, I know exactly, and I literally have them. I know them because with the boot camp with a cohort, I have work with all of them. And that's part of delivering a lasting uh change, is that those people, each one of those students means something to me, and I mean something to them. You know, I think about in my first boot camp that was online, it was a guy named uh Rashid Lawal, who is from Nigeria. Nigerian university teachers were on strike. University's closed. He's in his final year studying finance. And so he doesn't have a computer at home. He's watching the course on a video live on a mobile phone. And in order to do the homework in Excel, he asked his teacher if he could get access to his office at the university, walked to the university and did the assignments. Now that kid works for Bank of America. You know, and you know, what a dedicated young guy. And so to watch my students rise has just been great. So I'm ready. I I just I I now need to scale that. And I don't really know, I don't really know how. You know, I I I look at, you know, email lists, and I I oftentimes say to myself, I'm not really a writer. Like I don't I don't like wake up and like write. I remember I had a friend of mine uh in Bangkok, he's written many books, and I've I've written, I've written like six books. And um I went I've written six books, but I'm not a writer. You know, yes, but you can you can understand six books, yeah. Um what we went to uh we went to this retreat, the two of us, and we had a bungalows right next to each other in Samui Island in in Thailand, and it was beautiful. And it was also like no food and you know, all kinds of crazy stuff. But one day I knocked on his door in the Morning, and you know, have coffee in the in his room, and we were just and he was lay sprawled out on his bed, and he's got pens and papers and pe you know books, and he's writing, and I'm like, What do you what have you been doing? He says, Oh, I've just been writing in my journal and stuff like that. And I was like, That's it. You're a writer, I'm an author. Okay. And that was like the moment that like writing is painful for me. Right. I'm doing it because, you know, I want to do it for whatever purpose. But he takes joy in writing. And that's when I kind of realized, like, yeah, I don't wake up and like, but I listen to some people that write these amazing emails and amazing newsletters. And I'm like, I I feel like, can I sell without being a writer? That's one of the questions I have in my mind. You know, I can talk, I can do videos every day, you know. Can I write? I can write if forced to, but is that really what I want to do with myself? Or maybe I should just outsource it and find somebody that, you know, one of my ex-students or someone like yours, you know, you people you know, yourselves and others, and just say, yeah, deliver, you know, deliver the content. But every time you try to outsource, you realize, ah, it doesn't work. And then you got to figure out, okay, how do I do this? So I must admit, I'm I'm a little bit lost, and I I felt a little bit bad coming on your show because I felt like so many of your guests have have it all together on the funnel and all that. But I also know that I'm sure there's probably some of the listeners or viewers that are thinking, uh, I'm kind of more in Andrew's camp right now, and I need to figure out what are my next steps.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think that the the majority of people that I talk to haven't got it all figured out. There is there are some who are like, right, I know all of this stuff and I'm crushing it, but like even then it's like how that they're struggling to manage their time with it, and it's difficult to fit it all in, and it's like, well, I don't kind of I kind of don't know what I'm doing, or I know what I'm doing, but how do I hire other people? And it's like, you're not, you're not alone on it. I wouldn't worry, I wouldn't feel that way too much.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_01:I'd say 90%, 95% of people I talk to. Obviously, it's a slightly biased sample because I'm talking to people who then want our help, but nearly everybody is like, I I'm really good at making courses. I'm really good at making content and building an audience, and I I don't get this stuff in between. I don't know what to do, and I'm doing my best, but I'm kind of just you know, struggling through. What's the what kind of level are you at at the moment with revenue? I s you mentioned like you had a thousand students, I was doing the maths on it, and so that adds up to like 1.5 million, but you've got some of these other deals as well. Like, what's like an average month for you if you're happy to share?
SPEAKER_02:It's it's it's definitely not that because I'm discounting a lot to get it, and that's part of part of why I know, you know, I've gotta I gotta keep improving this. So, number one, I'm doing discounts. Number two, I'm doing scholarships, you know, for students. I want some great people. Uh and so with discounts and scholarships, I also do an internship program. And so I've got that, and and so I've got global interns coming in. So I'm much, much lower than that. And you know, let's think theoretically, I can launch three or four times a year, but let's just say three times a year. And let's just say for for for just the sake of argument, let's just say that I can, you know, issue, I can I can sell at a thousand dollars, right? Let's say I have to pay out some for uh selling and all that, but let's say I get a thousand dollars. I should have a hundred students at a thousand dollars. That should be what I'd be getting every single time I launch, right? And and then I should be raising that over time, but I'm not there. Definitely not there.
SPEAKER_01:Got it. Okay, cool. What's the vision for you? You've kind of talked about the transformation you want to help make. Do you have a number of students you want to try and get through that you want to have in your your programs? If you hit that, if you were doing three launches, thousand dollars per person, hundred students per launch, would you be like, cool, that's great, or is it like, no, that's step one, and then there's another level there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, there's another level. And basically, I would say the capacity with the infrastructure I have and the team that I have, the capacity is 500 students per launch. Oh, okay. That's the capacity. Right. And that and once I get to that capacity, I can take it to another level, right? Basically, because I'm kind of that engineer type, every constraint I come up with, I come up with a solution, an automation solution, a system solution. But 500 is is not a problem. So and and truthfully, I could I used to do it the six-week one, I launched five to six times a year. So let's just say I could literally do five hundred four times a year. And and that would let's just say that we can do that. That's two thousand students a year that I'm making a real impact on. That that's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. What's um what's the what's the focus, do you think? Is it on getting in more students that uh through your kind of funnels that you that are just paying you? Or do you think it's like this this thing with the companies paying you money to get a load through? Do you do you get a feeling of like which of those is a bigger focus for you? Or do you think it needs to be both?
SPEAKER_02:Uh it's it's gotta be both. I mean, on the company side, there's big wins out there. There's probably ten ten companies out there that really need this. And and they're willing to pay because they see the value. And with that on the the uh on the output side, that then attracts more people coming in on the input side. You know, and so I would say it's both, but but but but ultimately, the other thing that's a a little bit of an interesting thing is that you know, most courses around the world, most most things around the world center out of the US and then they're adapted globally. And I started in Thailand. I've been here 33 years and I just made a global course out of Thailand. So I'm naturally selling to kind of emerging market students and students that don't necessarily the the price point for them is very different. And so part of what I need to do is target London, Frankfurt, Paris, New York, Chicago, Los Angeles, uh Stockholm, you know, these, you know, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Singapore, South uh Seoul. Like I think I need to do a city focus first, and then really start to expand in that way. And then I think a university focus where I try to reach out to university professors in finance to say we've got these either scholarships or internships, because I do think those connections are are great and it can bring in a steady flow of of students. And you know, that that's something that's kind of exciting since I've been teaching at university all my life, and I have a PhD in finance, and I teach, you know, at university all the time because I enjoy that, you know. Not not as much as I used to, but you know.
SPEAKER_01:Nice. Andrew, this has been an absolutely fascinating conversation. If someone wants to go and check you out and see what you're doing, where should they go and look? Just go to evaluationmasterclass.com and it's right there.
SPEAKER_02:And I do have a podcast where I've interviewed I've interviewed I got 800 episodes of it, and it's called Yeah, it's called MyWorst Investment Ever dot com. Okay. And I help um, you know, basically uh I'm on a mission to help one million people reduce risk in their lives. And I do that by interviewing people about their worst investment ever. And so I've got incredible interviews with amazing people that are willing to walk through the catastrophes in their lives, what happened, what went wrong, and how do they, you know, how what did they learn from it? And with thankfully with AI, I'm now in the process of extracting that and creating a great course on how to reduce risk, you know, for for everybody, not only investing in the stock market, but buying a house and a condo. And I've got stories on everything, you know. So that's another part. So they feel free to listen to my worst investment ever.
SPEAKER_01:Andrew, thanks so much for coming on. Really, really appreciate your time. This was amazing. And as always, to everyone listening, thank you so much for listening. Really love you guys. All right, so later. Thanks.