The Art of Selling Online Courses

Zero Competition: How She Picked Her Niche

• John Ainsworth

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🔥 Work With Me - https://datadrivenmarketing.co/done-for-you

Today I'm talking with Tami Macala, a professional mosaic artist and teacher who has been creating mosaic art for over 20 years. In 2009 she started the Santa Barbara School of Mosaic Art, and in 2016 she and her husband Jerry launched Mosaic Arts Online. They also run Create Arts Online and Todos Retreats, taking students to places like Baja Mexico and Italy.

What's fascinating about Tami's story is that she's built a business in what she openly admits is a very small niche. The mosaic community isn't huge, but she's managed to serve over 10,000 students and become essentially the only online mosaic art school. 

We get into how she collaborates with other artists, why she insists on controlling the production quality herself, and how she manages to launch one to two courses every single month. She walks through her 10-day launch system, her approach to pricing and discounts, and why she runs just two sales per year now instead of four.

Tami is also refreshingly honest about where she's leaving money on the table. She knows her welcome sequences and funnels need work, and we talk about what she could be doing differently with order bumps and upsells on her Teachable checkout pages.

If you want to dig deeper into welcome sequences, go back and listen to 
🎧 How to Convert Prospects into Buyers Using Email Onboarding. 
🎧 12 Checkout Page Tricks to Get More Sales Instantly.

🌐 You can find Tami at https://mosaicartsonline.com
🌐 https://createartsonline.com
🌐 https://todosretreats.com.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a really small niche. We're in a really good spot as far as being the only mosaic art school online. Our competition is pretty slim, which is wonderful. I don't think anyone would come in and be able to really replicate what we're doing. We have over 10,000 that have been part of Mosaic Arts Online. And my husband, who's a PhD in chemistry but really good tech, said, why don't we try and do this online? I will give him all the credit. Because I was like, online what? No, no. We did not come at this with a business plan. We did not come at this with, oh, we gotta get our discs and our funnel and our everything like you and I were talking about. It's work though. They're selling out.

SPEAKER_02:

Hello and welcome to the art of selling online courses. We are here to share winning strategies. Secret acts, top performers in the online course industry. My name's John Angel, and today's guest is Tammy, a professional mosaic artist and teacher. Amy's been creating art all of her life and mosaic art for over 20 years. In 2009, she started the Santa Barbara School of Mosaic Art. Based on her love for mosaic art, she wanted to share her passion with other creative people. Tammy and her husband Jared also own Mosaic Arts Online, Create Arts Online. And both of these are online schools that are their full-time job when they're not hosting retreats in Todos, Santos, or other parts of the world. Today we're going to be talking about the process of creating courses in collaboration with talented artists, why it's not necessarily the best artists who make the best instructor, and of course, about email marketing and funnels. Amy, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks, John. It's really great to be here.

SPEAKER_02:

So tell everybody a little bit about like what kind of courses are you making and who are they for?

SPEAKER_01:

We are making um obviously online courses, and our uh focus in Mosaic Arts Online is mostly on mosaic art, mixed media, mosaic art, because mosaic art has such a range of being from traditional to very contemporary now. Also at a lot of different levels of mosaic artists. There's hobbyists that just want to get started and try something new and don't have a lot of materials, and it goes all the way to the more advanced students that want to learn from people that really have mastered the art over years and maybe have even studied in Italy, where that's pretty much like the birthplace of mosaic art in that way. We also have Create Arts Online, which is exactly the same kind of platform, but strictly mixed media art. So you have your watercolor, your acrylic painting, your paper art, your collage. It really goes into art journaling, all different kinds of things that sort of separates it from mosaic art. And we just wanted to keep them separated because they're really two different mediums, but they can serve the same purpose. And our students uh love it.

SPEAKER_02:

Now you said mixed media mosaic, as if everyone knows what that means. Yeah, it out for me because I definitely don't.

SPEAKER_01:

If you look at the piece behind me, you might see lots of different materials in it, and it's not a traditional just one type of material mosaic art. Same with this one here. This we call it a mandala, and it's got different kinds of gems and different materials in it. So we like to lean into calling it mixed media because it's not traditional, just like this one. That's all mosaic art, that it's all uh like Italian smalty, if you know. It's a special glass. It's the glass that's in the Vatican, it's the glass that you might see in a lot of the churches. Um, that's very specific, one type of glass that's used, and some artists like to do so. That would be considered a contemporary mosaic using traditional materials. This one would just be contemporary using mixed media materials.

SPEAKER_02:

Aaron Ross Powell And Do people get really like defensive about their style of murky mosaics? Like the old-fashioned the people who do it the more traditional way feel like, what is this thing? You can't call that mosaics?

SPEAKER_01:

Is it like a is that did you do your research?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I just assuming that that's it seems like the kind of thing that would really upset people.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, there's always been an argument in mosaic art about it not being accepted as what they call fine art. So you won't see a ton of mosaics in museums. And it's hard to get your mosaics hung in a gallery for its own show and stuff like that. So the even the traditional mosaic artists, you know, want to stay in their lane and be um, you know, traditional with their materials and how they make their lines. And there is a very, very mastering um uh technique to doing mosaic art. But nowadays the world we live in is so contemporary, and everyone as an artist obviously wants to kind of create their own lane and do their own style. And to do that, you can't just stay in one material. I mean, this artist here has done a brilliant job with it. But for a lot of artists, they'll go out in the world. One of them is really well known for using slate, another one might be really well known for using, you know, this one's like all broken plates and crockery and then found objects in the desert. This is my piece here. And we have property out near Death Valley, and so I found a lot of these things that are ancient, you know, from like the 40s or ancients, the 40s, sorry. And so um, so anyway, yeah, so it yes, what you're asking is a conversation that continues all the time. But for us as a business, it's really, really important that we can serve all of our students. And to serve all of our students, we have to have all different types of mosaics. So we just launched a course that did phenomenal that was all about how to use a um, it's a handmade clay stamp called You Are Here on it. And you can make any type of mosaic around it. And then the course we're gonna launch on Friday is all in stained glass. So people that don't want to do you are here but love to work in mosaic stained glass are going to love the next course coming out. So it really we're really, really um in tune with making sure we serve our whole community.

SPEAKER_02:

And give people some kind of idea of the size of your your business. Like how many customers have you got?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we have over, you know, 10,000 um that are, you know, have been part of Mosaic Arts Online, but it just depends on the course if that's what you're asking. You know, it can be in the hundreds when people really um want that type of course and that's what they're looking for, or they really love that artist. And then there can be others that aren't quite as um strong, but that's okay. We all of our courses are evergreen. We don't turn any of them off. We want our students to be able to come in at any time. If someone finds mosaic arts online, we want them to have um the selection, which that might be part of our slightly Achilles heel, is we have so many to choose from. It is a little overwhelming. So we really lean into our categories and make sure people, when they come in, can really search either for the artist or for the style or the material they want to work with. And all those are, you know, in the category search bars.

SPEAKER_02:

And do you make any of the courses? Do they all make by these other artists? Like what kind of how does it all work?

SPEAKER_01:

I I do my own courses. I'm actually in the process right now of doing this one in like a mini version because people really are interested in how to adhere those broken pieces up there that are the found objects so they can last a long time. And that piece is over three or four years old. So I'm teaching really it's important to teach the right adhesives and how to make sure they're gonna stay and how to place them so it doesn't look like a hot mess. And so I'm actually in the process of that one. And you had asked about memberships too. And I have a membership at uh Mosaic Arts Online that's called Foundations and Fundamentals. And that one is 14 of my courses, all bundled into one with a monthly fee. Plus, I go live once a month on Zoom with our membership, and then they could ask me any question. And that's really, you know, when we're all in this online world business, we're all islands, and the lack of connectivity that we can't really have physically, that gives them a chance to all come together, you know, one time a month and talk to me, ask me questions, show me what they're working on. So between that, there's some blogs on there, there's these things called demos under 20. So in under 20 minutes, I demo just a quick hack, and there's a huge plethora of those on there. So it's a great membership for people just starting out. And I lean more into the beginner courses for most of mine, just to give people a real uh launching pad so then they can go in and feel more confident to try some of our other artists.

SPEAKER_02:

And is that how it all got started, you making courses and then you expanded out to other artists?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, the short story is I was in the movie industry for 20 years in Los Angeles as a costumer and dressing actors, being on set. So I also started the Santa Barbara School of Mosaic Art while I was still working in Hollywood, so a lot of uh commuting, and then decided that in 2015, my husband, who's a PhD in chemistry but really good tech, said, why don't we try and do this online? So, with my kind of background in the film industry and in talent and how to manage them, and then lighting and all the camera stuff was easy for me, and he was like, I could do the editing. And so that's how it all sort of came to be. And I retired out of the movie industry in 2012, and then we launched uh Mosaic Arts Online in 2016, way before COVID.

SPEAKER_02:

And how has it worked in terms of building an audience? Do you uh do a lot of work around that? Do your the do the other people who are making courses like point people, point their audience in as well? Like, how has that worked for you?

SPEAKER_01:

That's exactly correct. So it's a collaboration, and the artists are paid a commission per purchase per course. So they come in and it's up to them, it's their investment. Is we do all the filming in our studio here in Santa Barbara. So the artist has to get themselves to Santa Barbara. We want to keep everything as high quality and as consistent as possible using our cameras, our lighting, our exact same space, so that the student knows they get the same experience every time. So our artists do fly in to Santa Barbara, and um then it is between their following and our following that's how we get more and more of our people. And it's a it's a lot of me being very um the mosaic community is very small, as you can imagine. It's a really small niche. And um, I've been the president of an organization called the Society of American Mosaic Artists for four years. And I just am pretty well known in that community. So it wasn't hard to become the face of this company and grow it and have all these artists trust us that they wanted to bring their, you know, content to us, film it and produce it, and then be part of um our, you know, Mosaic Arts Online instructor uh library now.

SPEAKER_02:

One of the things I find really fascinating doing these interviews is that I get to find out that there are niches people are selling courses in that I had never really thought about. You know, I'd never really I you know I knew mosaics existed. I didn't know mixed art mixed media mosaics existed, and I hadn't thought about the fact that someone is selling courses in that space. I was talking to someone the other day who does one a minute, see if I can remember this. Um what's the name of the thing you like make a like covering for a bed out of quilts, like out of lots of different bits of material?

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm. Quilting, oh yeah, quilting's huge.

SPEAKER_02:

She didn't do quilting, she did like a specific kind of like finishing to quilts.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_02:

White, white arbor quilting. I didn't totally understand. And uh Beth Ann, her name was. And uh I was like, wow, that is that is really niche. That's like a niche of quilting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I mean, in being a part of Teachable for so long, um, I've been in a lot of round tables and different discussions and master classes with them, and you just can't believe the amount of different content. I mean, you can because you do this for a living. But yes, it is it's how to build a shoe, how to, you know, it just goes on and on. And some of it I don't even understand. Um, but yeah, no, it's really, really um pretty fascinating. And obviously a lot of it was born out of um during the pandemic. Um, and that was kind of the genius of my husband. I will give him all the credit because I was like online, what? No, no, we we did not come at this with a business plan. We did not come at this with, oh, we got to get our this and our funnel and our everything, like you and I were talking about. And um, it's worked though. So I kind of come from I'm much more of an organic person, as you can tell. I sort of am an artist. That's all I am. I'm an artist that likes people, that knows how to do what I do now, but it took some training, but it had some background. Um, but you know, it's really it it I don't know, it just works for what we do, but we are an anomaly. We really are. And um the pandemic really helped us because we had already launched in 2016. We did launch Create Arts Online, but again, it was all being prepped. We had nine courses already in the, you know, into the platform and everything when the pandemic hit. So um so yeah, it's been interesting to see how other people just took it as an opportunity and it's changed their life, which has been phenomenal to see.

SPEAKER_02:

It's wonderful, isn't it? Talk to me about like the way that you are making sales. How much of it is by doing like email launches when you do a new course or when you got a discount or whatever out to your email list? How much of it is just like drive-by sales, people going to the website and and buying something?

SPEAKER_01:

It's a good question. Um, I'm in a mastermind group with a few other teachable creators, and it's just so we can like, you know, bounce things off each other and uh stay in touch. And it just keeps coming back every time to email. Email is, as we all know, the conversion of how it's gonna happen. And so we really try and grow our email list just by um, you know, whatever, YouTube, Instagram, you know, the different things that people can find us. Drive by would be part of it, but not as probably strong as you would think for us. Um and again, like we're not big on um funnels and things like that, which I would like to do more of. But for right now, really it's our it's our hardcore lovers of both mosaic arts and create arts online that um keep purchasing courses. And they really love the opportunity to learn in their own space, on their own schedule, you know, being able to watch it over and over and over again. All of our courses have lifetime access, which is really important. Um, and so the the testimonials really are what, you know, to this day, 10 years later, just blow my mind and make us keep doing what we do.

SPEAKER_02:

So, how often will you run a promotion? Uh, either because it's a new course or because you're doing a discount trying to just make extra sales? Like, is that every month? Is it a couple of times a year? Like what's normal for you?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we launch courses anywhere from one to two a month per platform. Month. Wow. Okay. Yeah. We just yeah, we barely take a break. If it depends what time of the year it is, it depends. So we do we have lots of launches, and again, that's because of the content of the other artists. You know, talking to soul, soul low creators and how they have to completely like create new content, make a new course. How do they do it? That's kind of the beauty of how, again, we're that anomaly where we bring in a new artist. And I could be filming, I filmed the entire month of August. I barely had a break, but we just pack them all in and then we have a queue that we can launch throughout the next like four or five months because they'll also come in and shoot two or three courses at a time. So we can stack them up and then a course will launch on a Friday, and we do come out with a discount. It's usually an amount that equals around 10%. And then that launch actually goes for 10 days. I know a lot of people say that's a long time, but we do really well capturing with our type of audience and demographic, catching them on the first and the second weekend. So it launches on a Friday and goes all the way till the following Sunday. And in the middle, we always do an email that we call our tips and tricks. And so we give them free content from that artist that usually relates to the course or something. And the our audience loves that. We get a lot of feedback from that, just giving them a little something in the middle of the launch to remind them if they still want the course, great. If they don't, here's something that you can use in your practice as a mosaic artist. So we do that, and then we have two sales a year. We do Black Friday for six days, and that's 20% off. And then we do we used to do four sales a year, and they were just getting too close together and they were sort of diluting everything. So now we're two, and so in November, when we do Black Friday, 20% off. And then mine and my husband's birthday is in June, just a week apart. So we call it the birthday bash sale, and that's in June. So they're just over six months apart, and um, that's 15% off.

SPEAKER_02:

Got it. And how does that tend to add up? Is that like do you get a lot of sales in when you're doing those discounts?

SPEAKER_01:

The 20%, you know, everyone wants to spend their money, get the gift certificates and everything at Black Friday is huge. And we're just transitioning into this two sales from our four. So Black Friday did phenomenal last year. Um, so we suspect hopefully the economy, and I'm sure you know and have heard from other people, a little shaky right now here in the States. And um, and then we'll see how the birthday sale goes. But you know, the summer can always be challenging because people are traveling, they have different things that they want to spend their money on, that sort of thing. So we'll see how that goes.

SPEAKER_02:

And then who is responsible for putting together the the sales page? Is that is that you, your husband, you've got like another somebody else who kind of comes in and works on those? How does that work?

SPEAKER_01:

No, that's us. We work on it. We just worked with a consultant a few months ago to sort of um freshen it up. We had a different image on there, but we use teachable as our sales page because we don't sell anything else. So it wasn't really going to make sense to have a landing page somewhere else and then have them go over to Teachable. Um so we've kept everything on Teachable as our sales page, our homepage, and then obviously where the courses are.

SPEAKER_02:

And then I see you're doing order bumps on your checkout pages, which is great. I love that. Uh do you do you don't have them on all of the courses? No, we don't have them on.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean Teachable just again, we've been with Teachable for 10 years, and Teachable just released those not that long ago. So we haven't put them. It also depends if the artist has more than one course because you can't use an order bump with a different artist. It has to be the same artist because of the way our payout works.

SPEAKER_02:

Got it. Okay, so if an artist has only got one course, then you can't have an order bump. Do you do do you use the upsell feature in Teachable as well?

SPEAKER_01:

After no, I've only used the order bump.

SPEAKER_02:

That would probably add another 10 to 20% to your revenue if you do that.

SPEAKER_01:

That's the one that you want to do when it's gonna be like a lower priced one, right? To really or doesn't have to be.

SPEAKER_02:

No. So the idea is the order bump is the the additional offer that you've got on the checkout page. The upsell is then they've put their they've put their credit card details in, they've hit pay, they've that's gone through, then the next page you show the upsell. And you don't have to you don't have to reinvent the the whole offer for that because you've got it from a pre from a where you're sending the pay the the offer independently. Um so it would be some work, but it wouldn't be an enormous amount of work. It depends the teachable system before they had where you had to have it done through just a video, which was a pain. I think they've now changed it in teachable so that you can have like an actual sales page for it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I'll and it can be it can be the um one of our like if I have an artist that has multiple courses with us that I would be launching this Friday, I could do an order bump and an upsell.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, as long as they've got two other courses. Otherwise, you might have the same twice. You might be able to have some logic where if somebody bought it as an order bump, don't offer it as an upsell, otherwise offer it as the upsell. You know, maybe I'm not sure I couldn't swear to that. I'd have to check in teachable. But if they've got more than one, then you definitely can. They do. What we find is normally sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_01:

Sorry, this one has a lot of courses with us. Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_02:

We normally find that about 10 to 20% of people will buy the upsell if it's a good offer, if it matches well with the previous thing that the person's just bought, and if it's a good sales page. Now, obviously those things aren't all guaranteed, so that's like not a hard and fast rule. But if you get everything right, it's about 10 to 20%. And so if it's the same kind of price, the second course, so let's say you got one for what we've got here, one for$227 uh from Joan Schwartz. If there was an upsell of another one for$200 and 10% of people bought it, obviously adds another 10% to the revenue. So interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

But with the order bumps, we've been doing the order bumps where we've been taking off like uh like 30% of the course because you're here already, and if you get it, then you get this too. So and those have done well when we've um when we've put them on.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and that's what I'd suggest with the upsell as well, because it gives people some urgency to do it now. Otherwise they might think, well, I could just come back and get it anytime. But if you've given a discount, they're like, oh, this is the time to get it. I have to take action now.

SPEAKER_01:

Now or exactly. And so I use that language in both the order bumps, but I've never done the upsell, so I'll try that with this new launch on Friday.

SPEAKER_02:

Nice. Let me know how it goes.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. I appreciate it. No, I mean teachables come a long way, and um they've they've got some really good features now, and um they just need to get a shopping cart. That's what they have to do. Don't have a shopping cart.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, with courses generally, I don't know how many of the people buying from you want to buy multiple things, but like generally with courses, it's better that it goes straight to checkout because it's um someone is then ready to take action straight away. My my biggest thing with Teachable is that their checkout page is just badly designed. And if they improved that, then I think it would it would help customers feel more comfortable when they're going through the the checkout process. If it was easier to have testimonials and if you could have uh better looking pages for checking out, and there's there's some things you can tweak. Send you, I'll show you actually an example. Let me think of one that's uh that's pretty good. This is, I believe, on in uh teachable. I'm just gonna put it up on screen and I'll share screen with you.

SPEAKER_01:

Um shopping cart for us and other artists that have multiple courses, it would be it would our customers would prefer that than to have to purchase and then purchase and then purchase, which they'll do. They'll buy multiple courses, but they have to go through the purchase price process each time.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

So do you think a lot of them want to buy Oh yeah, especially during Black Friday and our big sales?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, no, that's fair. I understand that. Yeah. Okay. Um right, I'm gonna share screen and show you a couple of different um ones here. Let's see. Okay. So if you are listening, I'm gonna try and describe this as we kind of go through. Um if you are watching on YouTube, then you'll be able to see. So we've got here, if we click through to the checkout page, you're gonna see there's a couple of extra items on this page that are a little different to the way that you've got yours set up. So we've got an image over here on the right hand side of the course creator, which helps to kind of maintain trust. Um if I go back to yours, we've got like the branding across the top a little a little more kind of beautifully. Um we've got um, we've got uh two order bumps rather than just one, which which tends to increase conversions as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

We've also got some testimonials, okay, yeah, a reminder of what they're getting, and the money back guarantee badge as well. Right. All of those we've found are like things that help to increase conversions. This isn't the perfect looking page because it's inteachable and it and it just doesn't let you make it as beautiful as you might like to.

SPEAKER_00:

Right.

SPEAKER_02:

But uh, but even then, including those things helps to uh helps to increase conversions. And I'll show you another one. This is probably gonna have the same. You'll see here yet. Again, there's an image, you've got the branding at the top, we've got two order bumps, and we've got testimonials. This one doesn't have the guarantee on the page. All of those, if you tweaked that on all your checkout pages, you would very likely, like almost definitely, see your conversions at that checkout stage increase.

SPEAKER_01:

All right, I'll owe you a coffee next time I'm in London.

SPEAKER_02:

So what's the what's the vision for you now? Like, where do you want to get to next with the business?

SPEAKER_01:

I just asked my husband that. I was like, hey, I was still doing this for 10 more years. Oh wow, okay. Well, you know, we kind of have to or figure it out. Um what's our vision? Our vision right now is we're again, we're in a really good spot as far as being the only mosaic art school online. So our competition is pretty slim, which is wonderful, and we're happy about that. And we've worked really hard to be that. And I don't think anyone would come in and be able to um really replicate what we're doing. But who knows with AI and everything going on. Um, but I think our vision right now is that we will continue doing what we're doing. We're really growing our TOTOS retreats business because now that the world is sort of trying to get back to, not get back to, but is back to sort of in-person experiences. I used to teach and have a lot of teachers come to our studio here in Santa Barbara to take classes and you can serve 12 people and really have a great weekend workshop, and people come in from all over the world to teach and to take the workshops, and that's great. But taking it to a place where you can spend a week in Baja, Mexico, you know, near Cabo San Lucas in this beautiful beachside town, and um be able to stay at the place, eat food from personal chefs, and then take a workshop from me, or now we're hosting other teachers there as well, is really like just kind of a step up in the in-person experience. So the Santa Barbara School of Mosaic Art has kind of taken a pause for right now because between our schedules of filming, and now I'm scheduled to teach six retreats in 2026 in Mexico, and they're back to back. So we go down there three times a year to um to serve the students and they're selling out. And so it's just for us, it's a better experience. We've been doing it since 2014. So again, there's a long history of this growing it and it's working that we really, really enjoy doing. And so that's kind of our two businesses going right now. And if you told us like what our goal was for the 10-year plan, I would just be grateful that I'm not 30-something years old trying to keep it going in this world right now because it's so competitive in other, you know, industries and stuff like that, that you really and being a sole creator is really challenging.

SPEAKER_02:

What's anything that is uh any issues for you around your email marketing or your funnels or like what's anything that you do find frustrating or harder with that?

SPEAKER_01:

What I find frustrating is that I'm really good at learning a formula, but if I don't know it, I have a challenge I'm pretty challenged trying to kind of figure it out. So I've never leaned into what I feel would be more um more students coming in if there was a better welcome, you know, funnel and all of that stuff. And so I've just sort of let it slide because again, I have got enough on my plate as far as doing the filming and my husband doing all the editing and everything. And because it was never something that we really put into play early and it became a formula, it sort of has become uh like Achilles' heel in a way. So I've wanted and have, you know, purchased online courses how to. And I know we have Kit as our email server. So I know it's an easy thing. It's and I know one of my friends that's in my small mastermind group is brilliant at it. It's just never been like set up for me to do, so I've never implemented it. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. So it's like if you knew what to do, you would be good at implementing it, making sure it happens all the time, but you're just not quite sure what is it that I should be, how does it look? What is the idea working?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, if someone's looking like I could write it if someone set up like the five emails for just a welcome, you know, funnel and then for other funnels. And if you've got new people coming in, where do you send them? How do you, you know, none of that's been just laid out for me. I mean, with Teachable, I can do a course, I could get a course ready and launched in a day. But if someone, you know, then it's, you know, write an email. So I just Schedule my emails for my week launch, my 10-day launches. Um, and the things that I do, which I really think is important, I do consistently. So it's not something just fly by. Everything is very consistent. When we launch, how many emails they're gonna get, what's in the emails. They come from, you know, a very personal place. People know who I am. Um, I wish I would get onto the YouTube channel more, but we used to do a lot more lives where we'd invite people, artists in and talk about things like that. Again, just trying to put it into the schedule and um and do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Got it. So for anybody who is in the same boat, or even for you, Tammy, we've got a podcast episode we've done specifically about welcome email sequences, which was with uh Kyle Jordan. And Kyle's a copywriter, a copywriter that we use. We know Kyle. And uh what's that? Sorry?

SPEAKER_01:

Kyle, we know Kyle. Is it Kyle in Geneva, Kyle?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, uh I don't think so. He's American. I don't he looks midwestern. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

Really? Yeah, I think it's Kyle. Yeah. We've we've used Kyle. Um wait, that's his last name, right? Oh no, sorry. We have Kyle Janssen. Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, okay, okay. Sorry. Well, that's a small world.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, anyway, so back to Kyle Jordan.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. He's a great copywriter and he particularly specializes in welcome email sequences, like the onboarding when a new customer signs up as a through a lead magnet or something like that. And we did an episode, episode 70, so a couple of years ago, um, how to convert prospects into buyers using email onboarding with Kyle Jordan. But what I can do after this is I can I can uh follow up with you about like here's some tips around welcome email sequences, or like here's you know, if you want us to kind of have a look at it for you and and um help you out with yours, then that's kind of we can do that as well. Um the other one, the other episode I wanted to mention for everybody was we've just been talking about how to make a great checkout page. And I did an episode this year, so it's 12 checkout page tricks to get more sales instantly, and it's from July 24th, 2025. And that was with Boris from Memory, and we went through like exactly how to make an amazing checkout page and how to get them to convert really well. So if you listen to those tips about the checkout page, you're like, oh, what should I be doing here? That's the episode to go check out.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And you can send me those, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I can send you those. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01:

Send me both of those podcast links, please. So I mean, I think it's good to sit here and discuss like the weaknesses and the strengths of any business, and nobody has it all figured out. Um there, you know, everyone's trying to just, I think, do the best they can. And I'm grateful that what we have supports us and we enjoy it. We um I think do really well at it, but there's always room to grow and get better.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And I think, I mean, similar to most course creators, what you're saying you're really good at is creating content and creating courses. And it's saying what you guys are doing is something is different to what most people are doing, in that you are filming multiple ones with multiple artists and you've got this whole setup and all of this, that's fantastic. But the same, it's the same kind of principle. Nearly everybody listening is going to be like, yeah, I like creating content, like Instagram, YouTube, whatever, and I like creating courses. And I didn't really get into this for email marketing and funnels, but that's the bit that makes the money in the middle.

SPEAKER_01:

It is. It's totally, I mean, that's why I'm saying, like, I've, you know, I've been told over the years that you're leaving some money on the table, and I'm like, great. And then you figure that you've taught yourself how to do this part, you could teach yourself how to do that part, but I think it it's just, I don't know. It's a it's a missing link that's been missed for a long time. That, yeah, sure, for 10 more years, if there was a way to already take what we have and make it more available because you find more people, because you do a better process in the funnel or wherever, welcoming would be would be where we would have room for improvement.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So kind of talk through the the the idea with the vision and some of the places that you've got you've got issues at the moment. What's what's any advice that you would give to somebody if they were thinking about getting other people to create courses that they sell through their platform? Because that's not a lot of people are doing that. So that's kind of a unique anku you've got.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. Um, we've, you know, there are a couple others I know about out there. And I think part of their issue is that they want to allow their creators to film on their own. And having, you know, nowadays, yes, you get a few lights and you get an iPhone and you can edit your own courses and things like that. But having the consistency of um doing it the way we do it, I think kind of just steps it up a notch. So if you wanted to go into the multiple, you know, creators uh way of doing it, then you find a way so that you can have the same consistent product that you're gonna put out every time. And I think that makes a huge difference. Um, I think pricing is a big part of it. And I think that has to be fluid. I don't think we're, you know, gonna sell the same core the different courses at the same price. They're all gonna be different pricing. I think it has to be fluid with the economy. And um if you want to sell your courses, don't just put it out there with your ego and your, you know, thinking that it should be this price because I've, you know, spent this many years learning how to do it. I mean, there's obviously that's part of the equation, but it also needs to be something that they're not physically with you. So getting questions answered or um them getting some kind of feedback from you is going to be obviously delayed. So there are different things, but then they get to watch it as many times as they want. So you really have to find that uh happy spot in pricing, which I think is really important. And we work with all of our artists to make sure they're comfortable with it and that um we're comfortable with it because there, you know, there is a commission, it's on a commission base.

SPEAKER_02:

Nice. All right. Well, Tammy, thanks so much for for coming on the podcast and kind of sharing how it's how your journey's been and sharing your wisdom. Where should we be pointing people to? If someone wants to go check out what you're doing, what's the website so they should go and have a look at?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, they're mosaicartsonline.com and then createartsonline.com and Todos Retreats, and it's t o-d-o-s retreats.com, and that's where you can learn all about our Mexico retreats, our trips to Italy, and uh different things that we're leading around the world.

SPEAKER_02:

Fantastic. Thank you so much. Um, if there's if you've been listening to this and you want to go check out those um those podcast episodes, just as a reminder, it was from July 24th, 2025, and then January 5th, 2023, were the two the two dates to go check out for those episodes. Um as always, thank you so much for listening. Really, really appreciate you. And Tammy, thanks again for coming on.

SPEAKER_01:

Sean, thank you so much. It was a great opportunity to be here.