.jpg)
The Art of Selling Online Courses
The Art of Selling Online Courses is all about online courses.
The goal of this podcast is to share winning strategies and secret hacks from top performers in the online course industry. We are interviewing successful business owners, asking them questions on how they got to the point where they are right now, and checking how their ideas can help you improve your online course!
The Art of Selling Online Courses
218 Meet The Woman Who Built a 4M Followers Course Business
🔥 2-10x your email list size in just 3 steps 📩 https://datadrivenmarketing.co/guide
Today I'm talking with Hadar Shemesh, an online entrepreneur and English teacher with over 4 million followers across her platforms. She's built an incredible business teaching English to international speakers, and in this episode she's sharing what's actually working right now in the online course world.
We dig into something Hadar calls the "trust recession" - why people are so much more hesitant to buy online courses than they were a few years ago, and what you need to do about it. She explains why she believes courses that only offer content are becoming irrelevant, and why coaching and community have become essential if you want people to actually get results.
Hadar also shares how she's built her business almost entirely through organic content since 2015, why 60-70% of her sales come from email, and what she's learned about the difference between YouTube subscribers and Instagram followers when it comes to actually buying. We also talk about live launches versus evergreen, why webinars still convert like crazy, and a simple tweak you can make to your confirmation pages that gets 70% of people to respond to surveys.
If you're finding it harder to sell courses than it used to be, this episode will show you what's changed and how to adapt.
🔗 Check out Hadar's website: https://hadarshemesh.com
🔗 Check out Hadar's YouTube channel and podcast: https://www.youtube.com/@hadar.shemesh
There is a big difference between this year and previous years in people's willingness to buy online courses. I see a huge difference in how people are capable of consuming content from, let's say, 2019 to now. Now, like people need shorter lessons, less time, more effective. The brain is now trained to get fast results without a lot of effort. Trust recession. It's kind of like people, they've taken one online course that maybe it was hard for them to make a decision, and they did, and it wasn't great, and it's gonna be really hard for them to do another one. People can get the content easily. So I believe that what you need is to create a product that gets people to the finish line. I even believe that courses that offer content only are becoming irrelevant. Building trust is critical if you want to build a sustainable business, but it's not just based on algorithm or Facebook ads.
SPEAKER_00:Hello and welcome to the Art of Selling Online Courses. We are here to share winning strategies. My name is John Antwerp. Today's guest is Hadar. Now, Hadar is an online entrepreneur, teacher, and content creator with over four million followers across all content funders. Her mission is to make English communication simple, effective, and clear for speakers of English as a second thankfully. Now Hadar and her team serve thousands of students from around the world in her online courses and her programs. She's trained teams in large global organizations such as Google, Facebook, Microsoft, IBM, and more. And she's worked with some of the leading actors, singers, politicians, and public speakers in Israel. She's also helped Google to develop and design its pronunciation search tool that now serves millions of people around the world daily. Hada, welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_02:Hey, thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_00:So talk us through a little bit more. I kind of covered briefly there, but who are you helping with your courses?
SPEAKER_02:Right now I mainly help people, global speakers of English, international speakers, pe people from all around the world who need to speak or to communicate in English or want to communicate in English for personal reasons, professional reasons. Maybe they have moved to a different country, maybe they need to speak English on a regular basis. But it's really for people who already know English and they want to feel confident, clear, and free speaking.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. And is that do-it-yourself courses? Do you have like coaching that goes with it? What what's your kind of programs that you're saying?
SPEAKER_02:Most of my courses include coaching. So I do have different programs. I have a membership and smaller courses and like my signature program. But the two core offers that I have, which is my membership and signature program, they definitely incorporate a lot of coaching in it as well. So it's digital, like online, it's it's a like traditional online course with coaching that comes along with it.
SPEAKER_00:It's been really interesting. I've been talking to a lot of people on the podcast and clients as well over the last kind of year or two and just seeing how much more people seem to be moving towards having a coaching element included as well. It seems like overall the market, not just in learning languages, but across learning whatever, seems to be moving more towards wanting that. I don't know if that's like a bias that I've got, or but it's it seemed that way. Have you always done the coaching, or is that something you introduced relatively recently, or how did you do that?
SPEAKER_02:So, first of all, I agree with you. I definitely see that more. And I even believe that courses that offer content only are becoming irrelevant for many reasons. One is AI, entering especially the language industry, but also like any industry, people can get the content easily. So I believe that what you need is to create a product that gets people to the finish line, that really helps them to actually do the work, which is the real problem, and that captures their attention, which is also another pop problem, because I see a huge difference in how people are capable of consuming content from let's say 2019 to now. Now, like people need shorter lessons, less time, more effective, and they need the help, the support, and the coaching because that's what they can get from AI. And I've done coaching all my life. Like this is what I love doing. Like, I I don't I I believe that people need that and I enjoy it. Like this is a part of my mission to really be connected to my community, and the community is a strong part of my courses and my brand and my business. Um, but in general, as we're going into, you know, 2026, I think this is something that everyone should consider.
SPEAKER_00:I had uh, I think the last episode of the podcast I recorded, I had Lydia Marachova on, and she was talking about how she's always sold courses. She was seeing people being less happy with them, and she actually built out an AI tool and sold that as the offering. Yeah. So that you can still get the courses, but she's not selling them separately. The the only thing that she's offering is is coaching through AI, which is a really interesting kind of new version of it. It was done through Telegram as like a chatbot in there.
SPEAKER_02:Nice. And I've Well, I have sorry.
SPEAKER_00:No, go on, go on.
SPEAKER_02:I ha like I think you have to incorporate AI, right? Like it's not that we need to stop with that. I have a tool called Hadar AI, where people can get feedback and practice along with me and practice conversation. Yeah, and I've developed it, but I don't think, and I don't want to offer it as a stand me personally, because I think for language learning, I think the element of facing other people while speaking, that's the real challenge that AI cannot help you with that, right? Like you would get to a certain level, but you would still, you know, experience the anxiety or not understanding or all the things that happen when you in encounter real people. So and my work really includes a lot of mindset work, which again, because AI has made things and it's a huge part of my business, but it's not my core offering. And I I do think that for some businesses, that's the model that works well. So no, no judgment whatsoever. Yeah. Just for me, for language learning, I feel like it it's it's just not enough. And there's plenty of AI solutions out there anyway.
SPEAKER_00:So what have you what software or what system did you use for building Hadaro AI?
SPEAKER_02:Delphi. And they're great. Yeah. They they create a digital clone. So we trained it on, you know, thousands and thousands of hours on of my content. Like trained on five million words because I talk a lot, like all my coaching sessions for for 10 years. Uh, all my podcast episodes, everything, and the course content. So if they have questions about the course, everything, and it sounds like me, so it's trained on my voice, and they can have conversations, which is pretty cool.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. And what do you since you got all the coaching and AI and all this stuff kind of included in your your packages, how much are you charging people for access to all of that?
SPEAKER_02:My membership is$37 a month or$185 for six months. So I offered like a six-month tier because I think it's an easier uh yes for people who are not ready for the annual. And I think like we've seen nicer conversions with that. And I have my signature program called New Sound, and that is between$697 for the standard plan, and we also have a VIP plan at$16.97.
SPEAKER_00:And the membership at I think you said$37.
SPEAKER_02:37. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00:That does that include coaching? Because that seems very cheap to include coaching as well.
SPEAKER_02:It is, but my audience is so diverse, and we have people from all around the world. So, like, we wanted to make sure that our teaching is accessible. So we are thinking more in the context of like just increasing volume rather than and then, you know, like there is coaching. So every day there is a lesson with a coach. There is access to Hadar AI, we have daily sprints, a huge community, four or five different conversation groups every single day. But we do have people from, you know, places where the dollar is really expensive. So like we wanted to make sure that it's accessible to them as well. And then I have my signature program, which is kind of like the core revenue generator for my business.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. Okay. And then what's the difference with that one then? What do you get access to there?
SPEAKER_02:So the membership is really about immersing yourself in English, building a community, building the confidence and a safe space to have access to coaches and teachers and other community members. The community is incredible. Like we've had already two meetups. They have offline meetups around the world. Um and it's really about, it's like a gym, right? Like you want to have a healthy lifestyle, you go to the gym. You want to immerse yourself in English, you go to beyond. And New Sound is like, it's a it's a transformative program. So it's 12 weeks. Every day you get a clear plan of what to do. So it's not as flexible, you know, one day you can do something, the other day you don't. With New Sound, it's really designed to get you through a transformation within 12 weeks. So it's really planned. We have a lot of proof. We have uh modified it. We we ran it for 10 times already. And each time we make small tweaks and improvements so that the transformation is is real and we get people to the finish line. So the impact is more profound and it's mostly pronunciation inside of New Sound. Beyond doesn't include pronunciation. So that's how we distinguish. Of course, there is over an overlap, you know, like the offers are um could be confusing for some people. This is kind of like the downside, but also, you know, whoever when people get into our world, then they find the balance between the two.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. That's great. Okay. Um, what's worked for you? One of the things that you've got to see on your side is you've got a big audience. Four million people across all these different platforms, right? So you've got Instagram and YouTube and TikTok and a big podcast as well. Which podcast is not used so much uh by a lot of course creators. That's kind of an interesting one. I think you've how many downloads you've had of it? Like a million or something like this? Oh, God, I don't know. Six million. Six million downloads of the podcast. Like, what? So what's worked for you with being able to build such a big audience and put out that much content?
SPEAKER_02:Well, everything. Like I think creating content consistently since 2015 has been like the best thing that I could have done for my business. Being able to get to where we are today, I think YouTube is picking it. Like when I first started in in 2019, right before COVID, um, the fact that I already had a strong platform on YouTube was significant for, you know, like it was uh such an important element of the growth of my business. And, you know, like everything exploded in 2020, 2021, because we were all digital ready for all the changes. So we were ready except welcoming people to all the products that were already there. And I feel like the impact of YouTube has dropped a little bit and it's picking back up now. So, and also like when I talk to my friends in the digital world and online business um entrepreneurs, not from my area of language learning, like I they they experience the same thing. So for me, now having a strong platform on YouTube, this is where I get my most loyal audience. They're very engaged. They go to YouTube to learn versus social media that they hang out there. And then if they come across, happen to come across, and listen, I have like a, you know, I have over almost one million followers on Instagram, but there is a big difference between the people who come in through YouTube who are very intentional about studying versus Instagram. Um, so that has been a big part of my business growth and also starting an email list very early on, 2018, 2017. You know, I ha have nearly 200,000 people on my email list. So it's kind of like being able to get those people into my email list and nurturing them and segmenting them and making sure that I put out the right offers in front of their eyes. I think that has been a big part of my organic business, right? Because I we don't put in a lot of money into Facebook ads.
SPEAKER_00:So I think it's really interesting. There's there's two almost completely distinct segments of course creators in the world. There are the people who we work with who are nearly completely organic, mostly YouTubers, sometimes Instagram, sometimes podcasts, but mostly YouTubers, do almost no Facebook ads, are very kind of mission-driven, trying to help lots of people, started this because they were an expert in a topic, teaching something already, English or another language or the banjo or whatever it might happen to be. And then there's another segment of people who are like, they've started almost with the goal was money and the they knew about funnels and email marketing and this kind of side of things. And they all a lot of them, ads is their main focus, is their kind of starting point. And it's not that much I find this interesting. There's very little kind of crossover back and forth in terms of between the two. There's some, but not a lot. So you're saying about not doing ads. It's like I hear that a lot, very few people in our world do ads.
SPEAKER_02:I have used ads, right, in the past, but I feel, and this is where I'm like, well, the people who base their business on ads are paying a high price now because ads, you know, like it hasn't been working as well as it has been a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, and definitely four or five years ago, right? And I have run ads and it has been successful, but I feel like the ROI is not worth it anymore as much, you know, for me to put in. Like I'm not against it. I think it's a great, it's great for business growth, but I'm also thinking of where can I put my energy? And I agree with you a hundred percent. It's all like I love organic growth. I love the engagement of my audience. People who come through ads are not as engaged. I always see it in the free events that I create, or you know, like I want the interaction. I want the interaction between them. So yeah, I would be a part of that first group that you imagine.
SPEAKER_00:So you've worked a lot in the last kind of year, I think, on your email marketing. And you mentioned about all of the kind of the segmentation you're doing and then the promotions. How often are you doing promotions of an offer to your to your audience at the moment?
SPEAKER_02:Well, now it has changed a little bit, but before that we would have two, three, usually two, only last year. We did three big launches. And that's where I use my email, you know, like my email list to the fullest. Like I'm really um 60%, 60, 70% of our sales, they come in through email.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:Um so we would do two big campaigns a year, again, last year three, and then two, three smaller campaigns for the membership. So that that's kind of like, and then I email them weekly, and then sometimes I do small offers in between, and we have Black Friday, you know, and we have another end of the year promotion. So we have small promotions with with two, three emails, and that's it. Um now we created some funnels. So when people sign up for freebies, then they there are two things that happen. If they sign up for our newsletter, then we segment them and then we ask for their interest. And based on what they want, we send them a playlist for the content that they would be most interested in. And then we also put an offer in front of them that is most relevant to what they have have chosen, right? So for example, if someone is more interested in fluency, we might introduce them to beyond. And then if someone says that they struggle with confidence, then after kind of like nurturing them for a little bit, we would offer my English mindset, which is another, it's kind of like a 30-day program that I have. Um so now we have some evergreen funnels that are leading people towards my membership. And it used to be close. So I I would only do launches, live launches, which is great if you're starting a business. I always recommend just doing live launches because you really get people in. Conversions are great, and you'll learn so much about, you know, how to market. But now I'm at a stage in my business where I can like I can afford to put everything on evergreen so I can grow and kind of like do other things. You know, I've been doing live launches for since 2019. So I feel like I need to put a little bit, some of the stuff a little bit on Evergreen.
SPEAKER_00:I've been doing live launches as well.
SPEAKER_02:Live launches. I love it. Listen, I love, love, love it. But I I want to create space for for new things. Like I have some ideas for 2026 and I want to make sure I have time for it.
SPEAKER_00:When when you do a live launch, what's included in that? Are you doing webinars? Are you doing challenges? Like what kind of stuff? I do it all. Everything.
SPEAKER_02:Everything. I do. Um I I usually do like a challenge or a boot camp or a live event. And then that leads into a webinar and then an email promotion that goes into um an email promotion, right? Like so we have cart open for about 10 days and we do all those things, but we also start sooner, right? Like b uh earlier. So we do uh lead magnets following like the few months before we are getting people's interest. We I I do some live trainings on YouTube and like I'm getting people's I'm getting in people's uh I'm getting their attention.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Um, and I start talking about pronunciation, which is, you know, the core offer of New Sound. Um so yeah, it there's it's like a lot of work. And you know, we always revise the sales pages, we always revise the emails. Um and it's almost like two months of work full-time on the launch of my entire team.
SPEAKER_00:It's okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's the so we've done we do like the the model that we use most of our clients is that we'll do an a a smaller email promotion every month. Now, if you've got like two main products, that's kind of trickier because you can only promote them every so often, right? But like you said, you've got the mindset one as well, you've probably got some other bits too.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And we've done launches a number of times with clients, and the the advantage to them is they do convert like gangbusters. You know, like do you know that expression? Is that an international? Yeah, okay, cool. Um I have a tendency, I don't know how calm, I think it's my from my dad to use old-fashioned Yorkshire sayings. And like a lot of it, people in England will look at me weird when I say stuff. So I'm never quite sure. When I say some expression, I'm like, is that an international one or is that just one from my dad?
SPEAKER_02:Well, that's okay. No, because I think having lived in in New York, like I think that I've heard it quite a lot, but maybe not from New New York streets. So yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I think gangbusters is is an international one. It's not it's not one of my dad's weird things. You're good.
SPEAKER_01:You're in the room.
SPEAKER_00:Anyway, so uh the the advantage is they convert amazingly. If you do all of the things that you can do, if you do all of them, it converts better. The downside is it's a lot of work.
SPEAKER_02:It's a lot of work. It's a lot of work, and you need to love it. And and you know, like, and listen, like we do it internally, the team knows everything. They're so kind of like everything is so well oiled, we have clear processes, it has become easier, but then you don't have time to do other things. And also in general, I don't know how you feel, but or what you see with your clients, but there is a big difference between this year and previous years in people's willingness to buy online courses. So I feel not just in my industry, again, like I'm I'm in the mastermind of digital entrepreneurs and and it's kind of like across the board. People with digital products feel like people have less trust in digital products. There is there are a lot more offers out there, definitely AI and and recession. So, like there are a lot of elements that um that have made the experience of being a digital entrepreneur a little bit more challenging, and you need to get creative because people already get it. Like they get what a masterclass is, right? When I started doing masterclasses in 2019, that was really new in my industry. But right now it's kind of like, okay, another offering, another offering, another offering, and people are just overwhelmed. You know, I was looking, we just uh went through Black Friday and I'm like, oh my God, all these offers. How can you make a decision? You just want to just say, okay, forget about it. I want to And this is why I think it's like it's really important to think about as a digital creator, especially creating content and building trust. Like I think building trust is critical if you want to build a sustainable business that is not just based on algorithm or Facebook ads.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I think so I've seen that more in the language space than in any of the other niches. The decrease in it's not seen, I have seen it across various different ones, but I've seen it more starkly in the language space.
SPEAKER_02:Probably. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And I I've been I've talked to a number of people about like why is this happening? What's going on? What have you? And I think there's a number of things that you're saying. It's like, I think there's people have seen stuff before, maybe they've tried something and it didn't work because there wasn't enough coaching included, or you know, they didn't follow it wasn't that the course wasn't good, but they didn't follow through. And there's AI and there's more competition. Like during COVID, it was great for course creators because there was a massive boom in sales, right? But also there was a whole lot of people who couldn't go into work and started online course businesses about that kind of time.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so there's now more now.
SPEAKER_02:This is the impact of starting a business, which is great. Listen, I think it's amazing. If you can find your people and you have value to offer, great. Like I I love, like I used to have a coaching program for teachers trying to build a business, and I opened it again before COVID. So it was like perfect timing. And we closed it just because of capacity, because I couldn't do it all. Right. Like it was a um, but I definitely think a friend of mine from the mastermind, she's an American entrepreneur, and she said, like, there is trust recession. And I love that term so much. It's kind of like people, it's exactly what you said. They've taken one online course that maybe it was hard for them to make a decision and they did, and it wasn't great. And it's gonna be really hard for them to do another one. But also I feel AI, of course, a lot of cheaper offers that technically give you all the things that you need, except for I don't think it really does, but that's okay. Cause I think people are going to fall off of love, you know, uh with AI really soon. When TikTok started and then Instagram with reels, we noticed that people have a shorter attention span to content. If once before, like you could have released a 12-minute video, right now you have to deliver your message in seven seconds, you know, or at least in the hook. People don't have time, but they're not used to consuming long-form content. Now, again, I still produce long-form content, but I'm very mindful that I also need to do a lot of really good short-form content. So people's attention span has shortened. And now with AI, it's also like it has um the brain is now trained to get fast results without a lot of effort, right? It's easier to get better results without working so hard. In my industry, it feels like people want that as well. They want to get fast results without putting in the work. And when you study a language or you want to build a business or all of those things, you got to put in the work. So people also, wow, 12 weeks, that's too much, right? Like it already feels like it's gonna be a lot of effort. And we're seeing that. And this is why I think people are less, you know, kind of like willing to put in the work.
SPEAKER_00:I think one of the things that I've seen come out of that that is good though, is it's it's forced people to think, right, well, what can I do better in my course business? Like the lady that I was talking to who launched that AI product, she with that product, she made three times more sales than she's ever made in any launch before. Because she was like, How can I make something better? And then she put lots of effort into the funnels around it as well and like and made sure they were absolutely on point. And like every single one of our, also, every single one bar one person of our clients had their best ever month last month. Because we just like, okay, well, how can we make better funnels? How can we do better email emotions? How can we make sure the offer is better? How can we make sure your courses exactly match what people are after? So it's not like it's not doable, it's just it's harder.
SPEAKER_02:And you have to be creative and think outside the box. I agree with you a hundred percent and think what offers are still worth keeping and what what do you need to change? Yeah, I agree. I agree. We're gonna make some changes as well in our offer structure because of that, because you have to stay, you know, like this is the beauty of uh being an entrepreneur, right? Like keep reinventing yourself and what you have to offer.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, 100%. It's like if if if everything's worked really well for five years, it can be easy to go, oh, yeah, that's just how it's always gonna be. No, no, absolutely not. One of the offers that you mentioned to me is that you had tried something as a tripwire offer and that hadn't worked great. And then you kind of I I went and signed up to your email newsletter earlier. I saw there wasn't any offer on the conference. No, no, we're not.
SPEAKER_02:So I'm I'm not I'm had like the way I structure my funnels is that I don't put out a a lot of offers right at the front. Again, could be something that I need to reconsider. But just as an odd like, you know, like a user, I don't love it as well. Right. Like let me get to know you first before I I, you know, like I invest money in your business. So this is not something that we do immediately. That's the first thing. And second thing, um, with tripwire, we tried it, we just saw lower conversion rate. And again, like it could like the tech is really tricky if you do it um where it's not, you know, like when it's an email funnel. So two things about dripwire. One, technically, and second, you know it's not real urgency, right?
SPEAKER_00:Like as it's the the customer knows that. Yeah, it's like a sign up for another lead magnet and then I'll get another 30-minute offer or something. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. So for me, like it was also like when we tried it, I was like, let's see. And then I wasn't super confident because I'm like a I like integrit integrity in my marketing. And like if I say it's the end, it's gonna be the end. And when I close doors, I close doors, right? So to me, it wasn't like a maybe I wasn't committed to it to begin with. Technically, you know, like we struggled a little bit until we figured it out, and conversion was lower. So the way my respon my audience responded to, because we were running both and we were looking at the numbers with and without the tripwire offer, and yeah, and we saw that it wasn't improving significantly.
SPEAKER_00:Interesting. One angle that I I want to pull back to something uh you said earlier in the conversation. Yeah. You mentioned that in your early emails, you're asking people information about themselves. How are you did I answer? Did I remember that right?
SPEAKER_02:I asked them to click on what is most interesting to them, like what they are interested in. So, for example, are you interested in pronunciation, fluency, um, or confidence, building your confidence?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, okay. And then you send them like different emails depending on what they've clicked on. Yeah, so we have like three different Do you know what kind of conversion, like how many people click on those links in those emails?
SPEAKER_02:Well, yes, not a lot. Like I think that like a smaller percent, let's say 30% of the people who read that email would would click on it. And if they don't click on it, then I just take them to the flu into the fluency funnel.
SPEAKER_00:So something that you could do with that confirmation page after they've signed up for a lead magnet is ask them that question. Because 100% of people will see that. When you do anything through email, whatever percentage, let's say 30% of people open the email and then some percentage click, and then that's the number of people who actually see the page. Right? So that might be 3% ish, right? Yeah. Whereas if you've got that confirmation page after the lead magnet, 100% of people will see it. Now, some people will just close it immediately, right? But the percentage of people who will answer a survey on a confirmation page after they've signed up for lead magnet is about 70%. I've run a lot of tests on this, it's consistently 50 to 70%, more often at the higher end of that range. And so what you could do is if you had the next page was a like one question survey, if that's the only thing that you want. You could have hidden fields in there. Let's say you, I think you ask for name and email address. You could pass the name and email address through in the URL, right, and that would feed the information into the into the hidden field. So they'd still be in the form, and so it would still feed into your CRM or your kit or whatever you're using. Right, exactly.
SPEAKER_02:So I need I need to tag them on active campaign, for example. Okay. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So you want them to be an active campaign. So you have the form, let's say it's in type form, just for sake of argument. You can do this in in most systems. You put the information from the original thing, the name and email into the into the URL, that then puts it into the form, but the fields are hidden, so they don't see it, and they just click that one link, and now their information will be updated. There might be other ways of doing it, but that's the way I'd normally do it.
SPEAKER_02:That's great.
SPEAKER_00:Then you're gonna have way more people that you've got that information on, and you don't need to have that many emails kind of chasing them about.
SPEAKER_02:So that's a good idea. I haven't thought about it. And I think what what it can also do the moment they choose something, they could already get the playlist, right? Be redirected to the playlist with the content designed specifically for them. Yeah. Because a lot of people ask me, where do I start? Right? So here, like you start here, and then the email sequence that will have that playlist and more, and the offer would follow up after. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's a good idea. So they've said fluency. Now they see what's what what do you want them to see about fluency? What's your best bits of content? What would you send in the email? Well, then now they see that. And so a percentage of those people are going to follow through and and do whatever's on that page.
SPEAKER_01:That's great.
SPEAKER_00:That I think would it increase the efficacy of that front-end process that you've got like enormously.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I like it. Thank you. Like, thanks.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no worries.
SPEAKER_02:Came out with like a good marketing strategy. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I've done that a lot of times because the I mean what we so when with tripwise, we generally find about three to ten percent-ish of people will buy an offer if it's offered at that stage. And so if you've got, you know, 5,000 people joining your email list every month, then it's it's potentially a big source of revenue. But if it doesn't fit with your strategy, then that's not, you know, that's not quite right for you. It might be, I mean, like, you know, if it was converting amazing, then you might have been like, oh, actually, no, I'm pretty on board with this this strategy, you know. So it might depend on the offer. But if you don't do an offer, then that's that's a really I've done that many times. It's a really nice use of that page.
SPEAKER_02:So you do see that Tripwire, like people respond well to Tripwire onfer.
SPEAKER_00:Massively. It's the most effective funnel at any point in the whole process. And because of that stuff we were talking about earlier, right? So if you've got an email list of 200,000 people like yourself, you send out email promotions, you're gonna get 30% of people open it, whatever, 2% of people click because some are less engaged now than the the earlier, you know, earlier in the process. And that many people are gonna see the sales page. Whereas the tripwire funnel, everybody sees the sales page. So even though it's uh it's a it's often a cheaper product, that you're not gonna have the$700 sale, right? You might have$27 per sale, but the conversion rate of that funnel is the highest at any any point in the whole process. And when it's not, we just generally see it's been um the offer isn't right or the sales page isn't right, or there's something that's not quite the right, you know, the right fit. But yeah, no, I see it working um consistently across many, many clients, including the language space.
SPEAKER_02:And I like I know that and I see that. And I like like I said, sometimes I feel like I need to build trust with the business before I get an offer, but at the same time, I have purchased things, you know, like the moment I saw an offer. So like I know it really depends, you know, like what it is that they sign up for or um where they're at in their journey. I like I love live selling. Like I think this is a big part because I've been live launching, and even now for my membership, I'm thinking of doing like a monthly webinar or weekly, because I think that engagement and like people seeing you. And again, like I think as we're going into 2026, being live in the same room, which is the opposite of scaling in a way, but not really, because I have, you know, I do want too many. I have could have hundreds of hundreds of students in on a Zoom call. Um I think people crave that a little bit more than how it used to be.
SPEAKER_00:But again, this is just my hunch based on what I see, but I'm no webinars convert still consistently across lots of clients. The biggest problem I've got with getting people to do webinars is they're nervous. I'm like, you're a YouTuber, you're really good on camera, you're good at presenting to people, you're good at like enthusiasm and excitement and everything. And people are like, oh, I don't know. It's kind of I don't know if they're nervous exactly. I haven't always, but like the people that we do webinars with, they consistently work. And there's two kinds that we've we've had work. One is the the free webinar on whatever your you know topic of the month is, and in fact, within that, there's there's two subsegments. One is you have a absolutely perfect uh Russell Bronson perfect webinar style webinar, which takes months sometimes to build and get right. And that's what I mentioned Lydia who did the AI product, that's what she's done. The other one is teach and pitch. So you'd have a topic, you just choose some topic that you're used to teaching, and you teach that for 45 minutes, and at the end you say, you know what, we've also got this membership. If you want more help with this on a regular basis, here's more details about that. And that's much easier to do.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and therefore But conversion is lower.
SPEAKER_00:Conversion is lower, yeah, because it's not it's not got every tactic designed to move someone towards the sale. The other kind that we do is similar to the teaching pitch, but it's a paid webinar. And that uh in certain niches, not always, but in certain niches, works fantastically. And that's basically the same idea, but you can do a longer presentation. You can do like a two-hour workshop or something like that for people if that's what they, if that's what they want. And then at the end, you say, I'm gonna now do the, you know, you've already paid for this. It's you know, you don't have to stay for this part of it, but I want to tell you about this program we've got because it's the best, it's the thing that's gonna help you the most, it's gonna move you forwards, etc. And we've done that with a number of clients and uh had people make, I think the last one we did$70,000 just from that webinar. I think webinars are one of the most underused tactics in course funnels.
SPEAKER_02:You think? I feel like it's so overused, but maybe I'm like so exposed to American market and business like for business owners.
SPEAKER_00:Business marketing? Yeah, sure. Because that's filled with all the people who they started with the money and the funnels and the not in selling language courses, not in teaching people guitar, not in all of the kind of people that we're working with. It's it's used by hardly anybody.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it works fantastically. And you're great on camera, right? You've got a great camera presence and you're you're enthusiastic and you're excited about your topic. So and you already know how to do webinars. So doing it.
SPEAKER_02:I do, and I think the selling part, like you said, people are nervous about it. So I'm just saying to the people in the audience who are listening to this, it's something that you have to learn and practice. The pitch. The pitch is really scary when you talk about your business, because especially people who are value-driven and who are like, I just want to give them, you know, like a lot of free content. So, first of all, like when you give too much, it is not ideal necessarily because it just feels like, oh, I already have so much to manage. Now I don't, I'm not sure I need the program. Yeah. Um, but also practicing the pitch and getting comfortable with it and doing it again and again and again at the beginning, like my first few webinars, it was so scary. And now I'm like, just give it to me. I love it. Yeah. And I've gotten better. I'm like, I'm really like, hey guys, like if you give me like, can I have your permission to share with you a little bit more about my program? And you can like, if you don't want, you you can go. Like, I don't like being salesy or pushy. It's it's not my style. And it works. Like, whoever wants to listen, they stay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I'm I'm all on board. I mean, if you've not done if you've got a a space in your, you know, process within your your promotional camera calendar to do those more to do webinars more, then uh I I would be shocked if it didn't work really well for you. I had a friend who um she sells uh training about how to make money by buying houses in uh out of state in America. So you might live in California, but you're buying houses in Ohio. I can't remember what the benefit of that is, probably some tax benefit or something. And um she uh had heard me talk about webinars, she ran a webinar, she made$70,000, and she said to me, What should I do now? I was like, another webinar. So she did another webinar and she made$80,000. And I'm like, Wow, and now no no no no, you don't understand. It's just another webinar. Keep finding, maybe find partners to do it for their audience or find different angles to do it for your audience because yours will all burn out or find new ways of building your audience.
SPEAKER_02:But keep doing the works every single week. Like, and for this, I would get people through Facebook ads, for example, for the webinar, at least build your list that way, right? Like, and then maybe they'll join the next webinar. Yeah, that's what I want. Like for beyond my membership, like I want to do a weekly or monthly, something that where I show, like, and you know, I I also get better at it the more I do it. So yeah, great. Nice. I love it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:What's uh what's what's the goal for you? Where where do you want to go to with the business? What are you what are you trying to achieve?
SPEAKER_02:Um I think, well, first of all, mm impact. Like I really feel like the m message that we have is somewhat different than conve what is familiar in conventional learning or, you know, other trends that you hear online. And I feel like I want to help people with changing their mindset, building confidence, and really learning in a more effective way. We developed a method that really helps people practice effectively. So I feel like I just want it to get to more people. I'm working on, you know, like I'm considering writing a book and um and also training people on that, like creating a training program for teachers. So I think that is um reaching more people. That's the first thing. And and, you know, like having I've already reached a point in my business where it's not just about survival and it's not just about making money. And it's not like I want to have, I want my team to be happy. I want to be happy, I want to be able to take off for a month and not to have to worry about anything. I want to be more present with my family. Like I love working, I love it. So sometimes people say, Oh, you work too much. I'm like, but that's my hobby. Like I really enjoy it. Not a lot of people get it. I'm like, can I just like put my daughters to sleep and then just kind of like open my computer and brainstorm ideas? Um, so I I want that, but I want it to be joyful. I want it to be easy. I don't want it to like, I don't want anything that happens in the market to impact me or and and and one more thing, especially for bit people building their business, if I could offer a little bit of my knowledge and and like investing in you as a manager, as a CEO, as a leader, especially if you have whether you have one person working for you or more or five people or 10 people, I think that is like the best investment, creating a good infrastructure, starting with build creating processes, um, hiring people to do the things that you hate doing so that you can focus on creativity and marketing and you know, kind of like developing better products. And the moment I started doing that and streamlining my business, I think I have seen a huge impact and investing in my leadership skills, the leadership skills of my managers, I think like this has made a huge impact. And it's usually like people who first, like who are first starting out, like they don't think about it, which is fine. But I think that it really is, you know, I can attribute so much of my business success to building. A strong team early on.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I love that. If people want to go check you out online, where should they go?
SPEAKER_02:Um, well, my website, hadarshemish.com or um accentsway English with Hadar, which is my YouTube channel.
SPEAKER_00:Beautiful. This was amazing. Uh, I think you're fantastic. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your your story with everybody and talking with me today. If anybody is listening to this and wants to know more about tripwire funnels, I've got a couple of other podcast episodes for you. You can go listen to episode 125, the highest converting funnel ever, and episode 132, how to optimize your tripwire funnel with uh me and Yosip, Yosip Belina. So go check those out. Hadar, thanks so much for coming on the show today. I really, really appreciate your time.
SPEAKER_02:Um, thank you so, so much. I'll definitely check out those episodes too.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And thank you for your advice and for this great conversation.
SPEAKER_00:You're very, very welcome. Uh thanks so much for listening, and we will see you guys next time.