247 The Passive Income Myth in Online Courses

Arnel Nisbet has 1.3 million YouTube subscribers, 700,000 monthly views, and runs her entire business completely on her own, no team, no editor, no outsourcing. She's also a full-time mother of three. And when Dominik sat down with her for this episode, she openly admitted her biggest blind spot: "My email list is my weakness."

That kind of honesty is rare, and it's what makes this conversation so good.

Arnel started her channel out of pure necessity. She had three tiny kids at home, limited work options locally, and thought if she could earn enough to buy herself one cup of coffee a month from YouTube, that would be a win. Now she's built Gravotion, a growing international learning platform, and she's thinking about where it'll be in ten years, not ten months.

Dominik walks her through exactly what a funnel could look like for her business, lead magnets, welcome email sequences, repeat buyer strategy, all of it. Arnel is taking notes in real time. It's one of those episodes where the guest gets genuine value on air, not just in theory.

They also get into why passive income is mostly a myth, why you don't need to outsource to build something real, and why "you are your own niche" is actually useful advice and not just a cliché.

Dominik hosted this one, and it's a really warm, honest conversation.

Check out Arnel's work:
🌐 https://arnelseverydayenglish.com/
📸 https://www.instagram.com/arnelseverydayenglish/
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC_XZoWueXyWuwVG4B_AEmmg?view_as=subscriber

Transcript

Passive Income Myth And Reality Check

SPEAKER_01 0:00

It's not as passive as one would think. Who watched clips and promos of someone waking up, they took their phone, they've made so much money overnight, you have that passive income lifestyle now. But that's not how it works. Everyone wants to make money in their sleep. That's amazing. But it is too much work. You have to first build the course. The entire time you're building this course, you're not earning anything. And then once you launch it, you have to just promote it. And once promotions are over, you will naturally see the sales decline because you're no longer promoting it. There is no I did that, I did that, I did that, I here I come, that doesn't exist.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

Hello and welcome to the Art of Selling online courses. We are here to share winning strategies and secret facts from the top performance in the online course. My name is Dominic Dragon and today's guest is Arnell Nistel. Arnell is an ESL teacher and YouTuber with over 1.3 million subscribers known for her clear and practical English website. She's the creator of GravOcean, a growing learning platform for students worldwide and a popular workbook author. Alongside her work helping learners build confidence in English, she's also a full-time mother of Twitter. Today we are going to talk about what it really takes to build a successful online course business, not the passive income versions you see on YouTube, but the actual real version behind the scenes. So we'll cover why online courses are not passive income, why Arnell believes you shouldn't follow most advice about audience growth, and why thinking in 10-year chunks changes how you build business. Arnell, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Hello Dominique, thank you. I love that introduction. Thank you so much.

Building A Channel From Necessity

SPEAKER_00 1:50

Thank you for joining us. So can you take us back to the beginning? How did this all start for you?

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Um Well, oh, that that question has kind of thrown me, Dominique. I wasn't expecting to go back to the beginning. Um I was absolutely petrified of putting myself online because I'm an introvert. I'm actually a very, very private person. So the thought of starting my own YouTube channel, the thought of becoming a personal brand actually petrified me. I didn't want to do it. But necessity dictated that I did. Um, I was in a situation where my kids were tiny. I think when I started, my son was only four, and my twin daughters, they were less than two. So I had three little kids at home living in a place where there really wasn't much opportunity to go out and find a teaching job. Um, yeah, to go out and find a teaching job. So I thought I have to make something work online. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna start a YouTube channel, I'm gonna open an Instagram account, I'm gonna do all that. That's how that star how it all started. Necessity.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Nice, nice. That's perfect. And at what point did you realize that this could become a real business and not just a YouTube channel?

SPEAKER_01 3:10

There wasn't one moment. Um, it's not like I had a light bulb moment or oh, this is it. Oh my god, this is this is happening. Um, when I started my YouTube channel, I didn't know what to expect. I think you can read a lot about starting a channel, but until you do, you don't really know how much you can earn. You don't really know how quickly you can grow. So I thought, if I could earn enough to buy myself one cup of coffee a month, I would be so happy. That's how I first started. I'm like, okay, is this even possible? Because when I first started, I thought, you can't really make money on YouTube. That's just what people say. You know, people say that, but it's just, it's just a bit, it's like a sales tactic. So um I think it grew from there. Okay, can I afford to buy myself one cup of coffee with my YouTube earnings? Um yes, I can. Um, is it possible to make it my main source of income? Yes, yes, it is possible. So I think it was a very um slow process. There wasn't one moment. And even now, um there there aren't any kind of one moment epiphanies or light bulb moments.

Finding Your Style In Saturation

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Okay, it's a beautiful story about how you started with the small steps, and right now, just on YouTube, you have over one million people. So what do you think you did differently from other creators? Is there anything that you can point out?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

That I did differently. Um I think I actually didn't do anything differently, and I'll explain what I mean by that. Um I teach English, and online all the topics I teach already exist. I am not teaching anything new. The ling um English language already exists. The topics have been covered a thousand times, but I think you will attract the people who like your style. So even though a video I make already has a hundred other videos on that same topic, people like my style. And I think that's how it works. So anyone who wants to start a YouTube channel or any website personal brand, don't worry about satur saturation. You know, you are your own niche. So um what I did differently, I was just myself. I was myself, I taught in the way I wanted to teach, I edited in the way I wanted to edit, and that was that. There's no um magic magic answer I have for that question.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Well, I think the answer is pretty much perfect. Uh you have to be yourself instead of just copying other people. Just be your own, uh be yourself and do how you think it should be done.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

So Yes, and um you hear a lot about this in course creation, um, become a YouTuber. Find a niche. You have to find a niche. Exactly. Yeah, you you do need to have a niche. My niche is teaching English as a foreign language, but you are your own niche. You as a person, your voice, who you are, how you present. That is a niche. There's no one else like you, so don't worry about it. Don't worry about um saturation and and competition.

Start Now And Drop Perfectionism

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Exactly. You also said something uh really interesting before that people should stop following advice and instead they should create what their audience needs. So can you t talk more about how someone finds their own voice and builds an audience in their own way instead of copying others, as we just discussed?

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Um well before you start, I think you need to know what you're gonna what you're gonna do. I think there are a lot of people who don't really have a clear idea of what they want to teach, what they want to present, uh what videos they want to make. You don't want to be random. So I think the first thing is, what exactly are you gonna do? So for me, it's clear teach English, find what you're gonna do, and then start. You have to start. Um, I think there's a term I really like, um, paralysis by analysis. If you start analyzing too many other people, if you start listening to too much advice, you're not gonna get anywhere. So make it clear, what do you plan on doing? How long can you do that? In terms of teaching English, it's really endless. The topics, um, I won't ever run out of topics. So start from knowing exactly what you're gonna do.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah. First step is finding the direction and then just getting started with it. Uh you said it beautifully. Um the most problems people have starting any sort of business, especially the course businesses, they just wait for it to be perfect, to make perfect video, to edit the perfect videos, to find the perfect platform, just making everything perfect. But it takes so much time and over time something new will come up. A new platform, a new kind of editing software and stuff. So the main idea is to just start with it, and then as the time passes, you are able to uh differentiate and do other stuff on your own and actually build your business.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

Absolutely. I mean, I think if anyone wants to, check out my very first YouTube video. I can tell you, before I published that, I was literally sweating. I was so nervous. Because I'm a perfectionist, and that's not a good thing. Um, this idea of, oh yes, I'm a perfectionist. No, no, no. I have learned being a perfectionist really slows you down. So, in the beginning, for maybe the first year and a half, I kind of wanted to apologize for the videos I was releasing. Just you know, this this isn't how I want it to look. This isn't my vision, but just take it, take the video. So just get started. Don't worry about it being perfect, kind of like you said, just don't wait for that perfect course.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

Exactly. I mean, people are there for you, for your value that you're providing. They're not going to notice any of those small editing stuff, and that it's not editus as as good or something else. Oh, dominantly more about the.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Let me tell you one thing I did. I filmed an entire video and I had a microphone clipped here, and the cable was hanging down. My perfectionist brain, after I edited, I was watching the video. I was like, no, no, no, this isn't usable. Oh my god, my microphone cable, everyone can see my microphone cable. That was a problem. For some reason, I filmed the entire video again, and I made sure the microphone was tucked in so you could just see the microphone here. And this is what I mean. Um, in the beginning, that was my perfectionism really slowing me down. Yeah. Yeah. So don't do, don't do what I did. Don't focus on those unnecessary things, really.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

And tuck in your microphone.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

You should probably check before you film. Um, yes, I won't go into all the mistakes, but that was one of them.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

Perfect. Um what I also see with a lot of course creators is that YouTube becomes the engine of the business. But email is where the money is usually made. So the goal becomes not just more views, but more viewers turning into uh email subscribers. So how do you currently move people from YouTube onto your email list?

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Well, um, I would say I I'm gonna be very open about it. My email list is my weakness. So I don't actually attract, um, I don't try to draw anyone's attention to my email list. I have the link. It's in a few places on my website, but the real um traffic is from my YouTube channel, directing them directly to um Grovotion, which is my online platform. And how do I do that? In every video, I put a little promo. I have a pre-recorded promo and I put it in there. You know, I do all the usual things. I link the link when I pin a comment, I'll put it in my community, my Facebook, my Instagram. And once in a while, I'm not really good at this, um, I'll send out um an email to the audience I have on my email list. But no, I don't really do much with the list. So, Dominic, you have to help me. You have to help me get through this barrier.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

Exactly. Well, since right now most of your funnel happens through the social media, you're also getting 700,000 people uh viewing your content per month. Yes. Is that correct? Yeah. So um the benchmark we usually see with other course creators is that you should be uh getting roughly 0.5% of the views in onto your email list. In your case, that means you should be getting around 3.5 thousand people onto your email list every month.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

At the moment, you have a list of 10,000 people, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:50

The last time I checked, the last time I checked, my email list is around 10,000.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Exactly. So it means that in just three months, you could already double your email list. Now, um what we usually uh how we usually structure this for other course creators is we look at your business, and since you already have the hardest part sold, which is the attention, um we want to structure it in a way that first you want to turn viewers into uh the email subscribers, then you turn those email subscribers into the first-time customers, and then you turn customers into repeat customers or members. Now, when those three pieces are working together, the business becomes more predictable in a way. So for you, it could look something like YouTube brings people in, you have a free lead magnet that gets them onto your email list, then you have a welcome email sequence that introduces your membership that you already mentioned, and then you run regular email promotions with your products. Now you have a full journey instead of just content and occasional promotions or emails that you send uh every few months. Now, lead magnets should be offered in pinned comments and descriptions. Uh you mentioned that you are currently offering your membership instead. Now, um people love rich stuff. I mean, who doesn't, of course. So offering something as a lead magnet first um lowers the barrier of people becoming your potential customers. So if you offer something as a lead magnet first, something for free, which could be a PDF or something, um, it makes people uh feel more ready to become your future customer in the future. So they got something free for you. Uh it's low entry, they just give you their email address and that's it. We usually do those with pinned comments and descriptions. And you can start with your most popular videos at the beginning first. So you don't, if you have uh 200 videos on your YouTube channel, you don't have to go through all of the 200 videos. You can just go with the most popular first, which gets uh the most views. After that, you set up a welcome email sequence. So, how the welcome email sequence works is that you want to introduce yourself first. So you deliver the lead magnet, and then you have a day-by-day email sequence where you first introduce yourself.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

So Dominic, I'm writing this down.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Perfect.

SPEAKER_01 14:24

This is like my own lesson.

SPEAKER_00 14:26

You definitely.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

So you're teaching me, and hopefully I'm helping some of your audience.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

If someone didn't hear this before, uh, you should definitely take a pen and write this as well. So first you introduce yourself, who you are, what's your expertise, how have you started with this business of sort, and uh why you decided to do that. How are you helping other people uh get better at what you're teaching? Um then you start talking about the products that you're offering, uh, your business overall, your membership in this case, and you also follow up with um people that already purchased your membership, your course, or whatever. So you show them the testimonials of other people. Now you are in a way um creating a value letter before showing them your actual product. So you are increasing the perceived value of the product that you will offer at the welcome uh at the end of the welcoming sequence. Now, after five days, after you introduced yourself, your business, your expertise, and your products, you will offer them something at the very end. Those are the last two days. So you can in your case, you will be offering the uh the membership. So this is where you can uh talk more in more details, everything they will find inside the membership, and you will again have some sort of uh promotional price or extra bonuses that you can offer as well, and all the other stuff. Now it's much easier for people to buy your course or a membership in your case, because over the course of the five days before they learned more about you. So they engaged with your content, they engaged with your emails, they learned more about who you are, they know why you are so good at what you're doing and why they should buy something from you. Um, the idea is to make them want to buy something from you before you even offer them something in return. Because you made it so clear that you were able to help them that they want to buy something from you. Like, please give me something that will help me with those problems that you recognized during those emails that you sent. What we usually see uh as the benchmark for the welcome email sequence is 0.5% of the people to convert uh into paying customers. Now, those people that buy are 50% more likely to buy something again from you in the future, which is where those regular email promotions come by as well. And that's how you then introduce your other products and future offerings that you will have.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

I see that. Um so I don't have a welcome email sequence, but what you described sounds amazing. Um, but I see that with um my workbook sales, because I have my membership, but I also have my store with my workbooks. And it is, it is true, people who have bought from you once, they're more likely to buy again because they know you, they like you. So that is nice um to be able to apply that to an email list. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:34

Exactly. Um it's because once they buy something from you, they see the amazing value that you're providing to them. Now they know that if they bought this from you and it was so great, everything else that you offer to them is gonna be equally great. So they are more likely now they trust you. Now they know the amazing value that you're providing, and now they're more likely to buy something again from you in the future. And now you have this real army of the followers that will buy anything that you have to offer. That even goes for the high-ticket sales. Uh, if you're if you will ever offer something uh more expensive in the future, they are more likely to buy that because they know the value that you're providing. So the higher ticket items must give value as well.

SPEAKER_01 18:26

Yeah.

Why Course Income Is Not Passive

SPEAKER_00 18:27

Um now. Earlier you also said something that I think more people need to hear. You said that online courses are not just a passive income. So why do you think the passive income idea became so popular? And what's the reality people don't see behind running a course business such as yours?

SPEAKER_01 18:48

Um, I think the whole idea of a passive income is really appealing. And it sold very well. You know, you'll watch clips and promos of someone waking up, they check their phone, oh, you know, they've they've made so much money overnight, and uh, you are on the passive income, you have that passive income lifestyle now. But that's not how it works. Um, I had another teacher who also sells courses, and we were we were kind of building our courses. Long story short, I had a course I made years and years ago when I first started out and didn't know anything. So during that period, we were all about the passive income online courses. And she wrote me and said, you know, it's not as passive as one would think. And I think that sums it up perfectly. Um, so why do why are people so interested in this? Because it's enticing. Everyone wants to make money in their sleep. That's amazing. Everyone thinks that, okay, you know, I'll just have this rolling in the background and I can do something else. I can have my full-time job and have this course rolling in the background. But it is so much work. You have to first build the course. The entire time you're building this course, you're not earning anything for um on the course itself. You know, how long does it take you to build your course? That depends on the creator. And then once you launch it, you have to promote it. And once promotions are over, you will naturally see um the sales decline because you're no longer promoting it. So you have to constantly keep people updated, you have to update your course. Um for me it's my membership. I love interacting with my members. It's an ongoing process. There is no, I did that, I did that, I did that. Ah, passive income, here I come. That doesn't exist. Um and I don't think any anyone who's made successful courses will tell you that's how it is.

SPEAKER_00 20:34

Exactly. A lot of people think that it's just you creating a course, you put it online, and then just the sales will happen in the back end, and you can chill on the beach, and that's it. I mean, there is some sort of truth behind the whole idea of the passive income, but the reality is very much different. And uh people should really think of the course businesses as a real business and not just something that you can run on the side and do something else uh as well.

SPEAKER_01 21:06

Um yes, and Dominic, going back to what you just said, that there are um there is truth to this passive income. So, you know, building a course, it's a lot of work, but of course there are so many pros. So yes, if I go on vacation, then yes, I can. If I'm not actively teaching, if I'm not actively working, there is a trickle. There is a trickle of um members joining, workbooks being sold, and you could say that's passive income, but all the work was done up front. And when that vacation ends, you gotta just keep going, going with it. So yes, there are all um absolutely perks to to it as well.

Thinking In Decades And Brand Design

SPEAKER_00 21:42

Exactly. You also said you think in 10 year chunks, which is very different from how most people think um online, where everything is about just quick results and stuff. So how does that uh thinking long term change the way you make decisions? For your business?

SPEAKER_01 22:01

Um, when I first started um online, this was I think beginning 2019, I very much had that mindset, okay, what video is gonna work? Okay, I have to um, I have to build a course, I have to sell this course, okay. You kind of think month to month, day to day, you check your analytics every day. I had the realization slowly that, you know, I'm a teacher, I'm gonna be working for at least the next 30 years. I have an entire career to fill out. Um, life is just gonna is gonna be just as exciting in my 50s and 60s as it's gonna as it is now in my 30s, and what do I want that future to look like? So I think in 10-year chunks, absolutely. Um and how does that look now? Um, I am not trying to make anything polished, and that is what um gravotion is. For me, GroVotian, uh, the reason I I'm calling it Gravotion, not Arnell's Everyday English platform or Arnell's The World, something like that, is because I want it to grow beyond me. One day it's going to be um its own independent company, and people who join may or may not know that I'm the one behind it, and that's my goal to make it an international company. And I'm giving myself, not five years, not this year, really 10-year chunks um to grow it. So I think by not naming my membership after me, that was a decision I I made. Taking it slow, I'm in no rush. I'm learning, I'm seeing what happens. I'm not thinking about next year, I'm not thinking about two years, I'm thinking about okay, five years from now, what do I want things to look like? So it's patience, I think. Um, to sum up my answer, patience is what is um fueling me at the moment. And it's not easy.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

And that's a great standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

So you run your entire business yourself and you have an outsource. Uh why is that important to you?

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Um Well, once again, I'll go back to the very beginning, um, starting my channel, um, how do I build a course, all that. And you hear a lot about you have to outsource to free up your time, you have to delegate, um, you know, just free up your time, outsource, outsource. And that just never sat right with me. Um, I kind of feel it never clicked. And I kind of think, what can I outsource at the moment? I write my lessons, I'm the editor, and I like the way I edit. Um, I have tried to hire a couple of editors, and it just didn't work. Um because I teach English, there's a very specific way I want it to look. And you kind of have to be an English teacher to know what I mean. If I say underline this grammatical term, they don't they may not know what that is. So I've tried editors. Um, it it just doesn't, it doesn't work for me. Um, I think first and foremost, I like doing everything myself. That might be different. I hear a lot of um YouTubers have a team. You hear them speak about their team. But I like writing my videos. I like um editing. That's I like um doing my live streams. It's really me, it's my voice, and I can't outsource that. Um, but I do have some projects coming up that I will need help with, and I do feel I can outsource. So I think if it doesn't click with you, if it doesn't feel right, you don't have to outsource. I've managed to write my workbooks, sell my workbooks, get have my course up and running on my own, and you can do it too. And when you feel like um it's time to expand, time to grow, then you can look at um outsourcing. But for me, it hasn't really ever clicked to to bring anyone else on the team.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

And you made it so far, which is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

And I and I made it and you can too. So if anyone's listening and you're you don't even know how to set up a camera, you don't even know what you're gonna do, don't worry about hiring someone to make it better. Just start back to that don't wait for perfect. You can do it. You can absolutely do it.

First Priorities For New Creators

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Nice. And if someone listening to this is at the very beginning, maybe they have a small audience, maybe they're just thinking about building a course, what would you tell them to focus on first?

SPEAKER_01 26:10

What to focus on first? Um build an audience. Whether this is your YouTube channel, Instagram, TikTok, anything, or your email list, you have to build an audience. Um you're not gonna sell if if no one even knows what you do. You have to um your selling actually begins way before you even create a course. You know, you create videos, you create content or emails, or you send out helpful emails. Um, you're kind of selling your course before you even started. You have to build an audience. So if you um have a very, very small audience, I don't recommend um investing and building a huge course. Um it's gonna be very hard to sell.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

And as we already mentioned, just start. Do not wait to make it perfect. Do not worry about the mic not be being tucked in.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Oh my god, don't do that. Yeah, I have more stories, but I'm not gonna share them with you.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

So uh yeah, build your audience, start, and uh everything else will fall into place.

More Episodes And Where To Find Arnell

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Absolutely. You'll learn as you go along. I'm still learning, um I'm still learning, and I can't wait. And I'm really um thankful, Dominique, that you shared a little bit of your expertise on building the welcome sequence and all that, and I'm gonna definitely look into that some more.

SPEAKER_00 27:24

Of course, of course. Uh Arnell, thank you so much for coming on the show and sharing your story, your insights. I think this episode will help a lot of course creators understand what it really takes to build a successful online course business. And for everyone else listening, if you enjoy this episode, we have a couple of other episodes that you should definitely check out. That's the episode number 234, How to Actually Make Money with a Small Audience. Uh, it talks about um building a successful course business with just the right offer and the right funnel. And also episode number 212, how I made$1 million selling online courses on YouTube. In that episode, we talk about how course creators build audiences on YouTube and more importantly, how they turn those viewers into the email subscribers and customers. Arnell, where can people find you if they want to learn more from you?

SPEAKER_01 28:22

Absolutely. Just search for Arnell's Everyday English. I'm on YouTube, of course, Facebook, Instagram, and check out Gravotion. You can see um Gravotion is very new, so that's Gravocean G-R-A-V-O-T-I-O-N Grevotion.com. I started it um just five months ago, so it's new, it's growing. Check it out. Um, yeah, and you can always send me a message, write me a comment somewhere. I'd love to hear from anyone watching um this episode.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Thank you so much for coming on the show, and thank you everyone for listening. And I'll see you in the next episode.