255 Stop Guessing Who Your Audience Really Is

Kim Foster spent 20 years as a family doctor before walking away to build a global platform around identity transformation. She now has over 250,000 YouTube subscribers, a TEDx talk under her belt, and a book coming out in 2026. But what made this conversation really interesting wasn't the credentials — it was how honest she was about what's working, what isn't, and where she's still figuring things out.

We got into her YouTube content strategy, specifically this idea of bringing people in with what they think they want, but giving them what they actually need. She talked about how she found her real niche through trial and error, not planning, and what the analytics told her that she never would have guessed on her own.

Then things got practical. John pulled up Kim's funnel live on screen and they walked through her opt-in rates, her confirmation page, her tripwire offers, and where the gaps are. It's a rare moment where you get to watch a real funnel audit happen in real time, with someone who's genuinely open about where she's leaving money on the table.

They also talked about her push into in-person speaking, the challenge of getting booked when you're known as a YouTuber, and why she's on the hunt for an integrator to help rein in her visionary side.

Warm, specific, and genuinely useful. I think you'll enjoy this one.

Check out Kim's work:
🌐 https://drkimfoster.com/
📸 https://www.instagram.com/drkimfoster/
▶️ https://www.youtube.com/KimFosterMD

Transcript

Cold Open Content That Finally Resonates

SPEAKER_01 0:00

The first types of content that I was creating were things that I assumed people wanted to hear from me about. So once I started doing that, once I flipped that, that's when videos really started doing much, much better. It's always, it's with that same core theme, but it's with a specific application that people are looking for. I couldn't have guessed that, and it's really interesting information that I wouldn't have known if I wasn't paying attention to the analytics. That content really started to resonate. That's when I got tons of comments, tons of engagement. Those videos started to really take off. Bring them in with what they want, but actually give them what they need.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

Hello,

Meet Dr Kim Foster

SPEAKER_00 0:38

and welcome to the Art of Selling Online Courses. We're here to share winning strategies to act with top performers in the online course industry. My name's John Edsber, and today's guest is Dr. Kim Foster. Now, Kim's a doctor turned reinvention expert, which is an author and a TEDx speaker, who helps people change their lives by changing who they believe themselves to be. After 20 years practice medicine, Kim left her career to build a global platform, teaching the science of identity transformation. Her work blends behavioral psychology, personal development and wellness. She develops digital education programs to help people redesign their inner blueprint and build lives that actually reflect the first never coming. Her thriving YouTube channel has grown to more than 250,000 subscribers. And her forthcoming book, Redesigning You, that comes out in June 2026, explores how to shift the beliefs and stories that shape behavior and destiny. Kim's mission is to empower people to reinvent themselves at any age and step into what they were meant to become. Kim, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

Thank you so much, John. I'm super excited to be here.

SPEAKER_00 1:40

So talk us through like who is it that you're helping with your courses? Who

Give Them What They Want

SPEAKER_00 1:43

tends to be your audience?

SPEAKER_01 1:44

Yeah, so my audience tends to be people who have often they've achieved something in their life. Life looks good on paper, but they have really felt like they have outgrown that version. They are feeling stuck in their career or their life and they're ready for essentially a reinvention, but don't know where to start or how to actually execute on that.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Interesting. Okay. What's your kind of approach when you're trying to get content out in front of that audience? Are you doing more discovery-based videos, or is there like other things are people searching for this? Because that sounds like an existential kind of thing that like a lot of people wouldn't quite even know how to put into words.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

Yeah. Well, when I'm so creating content, and YouTube is the main place where I'm creating my content. So I for each piece of YouTube, um, you know, each YouTube video, I kind of take a different angle. So the video that's coming out tomorrow, for example, is about um how to become more decisive. Um and I look at it from my lens, which is identity. So, you know, people who are floundering and feet and circling and indecision, so much of it is that they just don't see themselves as someone who can make decisions quickly, move, and um course correct if necessary. Just but the key is to just make the decision. They are stuck in an identity of um, I need to make this perfect, or I can't make a mistake, or I've made mistakes in the past, I always make the wrong decision, like that. So that piece of content is still with my core three through line of, you know, who are you being in this world? What do you believe about yourself? But it's looking, it's applying it to the specific problem that people have of I can never make decisions. And so that's how when I create pieces of content, um, it's it's always it's with that same core theme, but it's with a specific application that people are looking for. So how to change their life, how to start over after they have had um, you know, a setback, like all the different things that people are looking for when they're feeling stuck or or lost or wanting a change or dissatisfied. Um but yeah, so that that's how I essentially create my content.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Okay, that makes sense. So you have a specific topic that is something that people already know that they've got an issue with. They might be searching for it, they might see it in the in the on YouTube, like just scrolling through. But then behind that, you're explaining that with the underlying message of identity so that they can kind of see, uh, that's what the real issue is, is the identity, and then that kind of ties into your on your overall theme. Okay. If have I understood that right?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah, that's right. It's kind of it's the theme of like give them what they want, but you know, bring them in with what they want, but actually give them what they need. Yeah. Um and then that's that because that is my unique um, you know, thought leadership, like that's my unique take on things. And so people will they'll find me because they have they have an interest. YouTube uh, you know, believes that they have an interest in these kinds of specific topics, and then they they find me. And then if they resonate with that message, then they stick around, they subscribe, they watch more videos, all of that. Good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

One

Tight Identity Positioning Using Proof

SPEAKER_00 5:04

of the things that you've said before is that you think that YouTubers and course creators don't necessarily need more content. They need tighter identity positioning, and that they're producing high volume, but the message is diluted. Could you talk about that in the context of what you've just kind of explained, of how you're doing it?

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah. So um well, I guess I mean, I can talk about my own journey. And when I first started on YouTube, so I was so I'm a former doctor, I was a GP family doctor. And so the first types of content that I was creating were things that I assumed people wanted to hear from me about. So I was talking about nutrition tips and diet and exercise and sleep hygiene and like all the wellness information that I thought that people were wanting, belly fat and how to um quit sugar and all of that kind of stuff. And that content does do well. But when I started sharing more about my own story of my own transformation in my life, going from being a doctor to being having an online business, being an entrepreneur, um, becoming a content creator, all of that stuff. Um, and what it took for me to overcome my boxed-in identity as your doctor, talk about doctor things. When and uh that that transformation for me, that content really started to resonate. That's when I got tons of comments, tons of engagement, that those videos started to really take off. And I, so for me, I thought, okay, interesting. Like that's my unique thing. And that's what people are most curious about hearing from me about. Because that's the really their whether they know it yet or not, that's really their struggle is um believing that they could do a similar transformation, whatever their situation is. But could they go from from point A to point B? Um, and and it's not so much about how do I lose weight, how do I get better sleep, how do I manage my stress, all of those kinds of things, which there's loads of that kind of content everywhere. There's no shortage of that. Um so so for me it was, it was it was tightening in on yes, people who want to optimize their life and become well, but also really how do they shift internally, like mindset and identity-wise. And so that was me tightening my content into not just broad wellness, but really a very specific kind of life um and health optimization piece.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Another example that I could give, like along these lines of becoming like when you're creating content, really understanding who you're, you know, tightening who you the identity is of your audience. Just this weekend, I was having lunch and doing an interview with um my one of my golf mentors, because golf is my current obsession and has been for a while.

SPEAKER_00 7:56

Um golf's one of those things that it's like it's possible to not just get a little obsessed about, but like really, really into it.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Pull on, like head over heels. I'm in love with this more than anything else. Yes. Um, totally. So uh yeah, so she's a golf YouTuber and her YouTube channel is going well. She she she's she's doing well, um, but she wants to kind of take it to the next level. So as we're eating lunch before our interview, um, we sort of pulled up her analytics and looked at her, you know, what are her top performing pieces of content? And her top videos were things like, because she has a course business too, of course. So this is applicable. But um her top videos were what do all the different clubs in my bag do? Um, what is golf lingo? What do I do when I go to the driving range? How do I even get started with that? It was though those kinds of themes. And I said to her, So what does this tell us about the people who are showing up and are watching your content the most? It's really people who feel like outsiders in the golf world and they are feeling like they're gonna make fools of themselves. They're beginners, clearly, and they don't even know where to start and they don't want to look stupid and they want to just understand the culture, understand what's going on. So there are some golf YouTubers that have like how to fix your slice, how to hit a draw, how to hit a fade, like those different for the golf geek who is already a golfer and you know knows what they're doing, but wants to optimize. But her audience really is I want to get into golf, but I feel like an outsider. How do you make me feel like an insider? And so for her, like if she can double down on that content, then I think she's really gonna hit a nerve with people who are, you know, looking for that specific element within I mean, golf YouTube is specific enough, but really like even narrowing in with that.

Analytics To Find Real Audience

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Do you think that with what you figured out in terms of finding those certain videos that that did work with your audience? Do you think there was any way of you doing that besides a bit of trial and error?

SPEAKER_01 10:01

Um it was trial and error. I think it's kind of with YouTube, I think it's kind of the best way because there there are so many signals that you can read to come back. I mean, first of all, tons of analytics and metrics and things which will tell you exactly what your audience behavior is and what people like and what they're returning to, where they're coming from, what other stuff they're watching, all of that. Um, and then the qualitative stuff of you know, the comments and what are people engaging with the most and what are what is what really seems to be resonating with people. And because you can't really figure that out beforehand, just sort of in your head or on paper, because things I wouldn't have guessed that that would have been the case. Um it wasn't until I started. So you really have to pay attention for sure. You have to be willing to experiment, and then you have to really pay attention to the metrics and the qualitative signals that are coming to you.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Okay. So if someone listening is like, oh, I'm interested in this. They're a YouTuber already, they've been creating content for a while, and they want to try and dial in, like narrow in their customer avatar and figure out like exactly who am I serving here. They could go through and look at their most popular videos and see is there something in common between those. And then what were some of the other things that you were mentioning, like looking at what other videos their audience is watching, I think you said.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Yeah, well, I mean, it's it's really easy to get overwhelmed with YouTube analytics. I mean, there's just so much to look at. Um but I mean, of course, there's obvious things like demographics. Actually, this is another really interesting thing for me demographically, because I first started making content fluorescence kind of targeted to women, because I thought, I mean, that's a logical thing, and I thought, you know, women's wellness and um is growing and midlife and all of that stuff. So I thought, okay, that that makes a lot of sense. But what I noticed when I look at my analytics is that my most popular videos and and going forward is that I'm and I used to be like 80% female, 20% male viewers, and I'm now at 60%. Well, actually, it's more like 50-50 um male-female now. And that is really, I couldn't have guessed that, and it's really interesting information that I wouldn't have known if I wasn't paying attention to the analytics. So just demographic-wise is really important to know who um, you know, who's watching. And uh and I mean, of course, you're gonna get data also on click-through rate, like are your thumbnails, titles performing and giving you the results that you want. And um actually one of the best tips with YouTube that I received was to create your titles and thumbnails first rather than create your content and then find a title and thumbnail that kind of fits with it and is appealing. Um, so once I started doing that, once I flipped that, that's when videos really started doing much, much better.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Makes sense. One of the things that I find with writing copy for like sales pages, for um email promotions, most people don't realize the importance of having a really, really clear customer avatar. And this is kind of the same thing, but for you talking about the same thing for YouTube. And I think a lot of people what they do is they come up with who they would like their ideal customer to be rather than who is your typical customer, who is your typical what viewer. Because you've got to lean into reality rather than come up like you were saying, like I can't you can't kind of do it all in your head. It's like look at what is actually working for you and then kind of double down on that is m is generally much more effective. And for anybody listening who's interested in in working on their customer avatar, I've got a free uh I've got a course on it, it's normally paid, but uh you can get access to it for free as a podcast listener. Just drop me an email, John at datadrivenmarketing.co, and I'll uh I'll send you through uh uh login for it. Um

Courses First Then YouTube Engine

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Okay. So you double down on that, you'd figured out that who your who your audience was more tightly, you've got a kind of way of creating the the videos for them. What's like the next step for you? When did you start making courses and and choose the topics you were gonna do that on?

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Well, I I mean I actually started uh making courses before I um start on YouTube. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

Yeah. I thought that YouTube would be, you know, maybe just a bit of a marketing channel or a place where I could have some content, but I had been building my courses out before then. Um but of course, you know, as uh once YouTube started to really take off for me and and end up being my primary, well, everything, lead generation, you know, community building, everything, then um then I was able to tweak and refine my offerings based on how you know it sort of all kinda came together organically. So um yeah, but I knew that I wanted to create courses before I started even dabbling in YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

That's interesting. A lot of people who come on the podcast, a lot of people's journey is that they started with YouTube content and then at some point their audience was like, Can you make courses for us? And I'm like, Oh, okay, sure. You'd started you started much more intentionally. You're like, right, I'm making courses on this. But I guess that your courses weren't originally on identity transformation, they were about some of the topics you were saying your YouTube videos were about. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

Okay. What's what's next for you with the business? Like, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to grow revenue in the business? Like, what's the kind of focus over the next year?

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Yeah, great question. So, next for me is I really want to expand my platform uh not off YouTube, like continue. YouTube is my main engine, so I'm kind of continuing to do that. But I also, because I mean, as you read in my intro, I just recently did a TEDx talk. I've got a book. Congratulations, very cool. Thanks. Um, yeah, that was an amazing experience. Um, so I want to do more of that. I want to do more in-person speaking because I as much as I love YouTube and as much as I love video and I can reach people, I mean, obviously, literally all over the world. There's really I absolutely love being in person in a room with people. There is no substitute for that. And to me, I think also with the rise of AI, like being in person with people is I mean, that's something that currently AI can't replicate.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Who knows what's coming.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

But right now, um yeah. And so I I love the energy of being like when I was on the stage with the TEDx talk was and then actually even better than being on stage with the TEDx talk was the lobby afterwards. After I did my talk, there was a brief break in the day for people who were at the Sat Ted Day. And having people come to me afterwards and talk, ask questions, and they were really high-quality questions. People were super engaged and and were sharing all kinds of things about their own personal story and asking my opinion and thoughts on that. And it was just amazing. I was on an absolute high for the rest of the day. So I want more of that, actually.

SPEAKER_02 17:20

That's what I would I would like more of that.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Because YouTube is awesome, is awesome, but um, you're not getting quite that same energy. And so, you know, coming back at you. Even people who are super enthusiastic and positive in the comments, it's not the same as uh in-person interaction. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

One of the things that I I think is one of the biggest hacks for if you're going to a conference is if can can you find a way to get invited to talk? Because if you talk at a conference, everyone wants to come. You don't have to go and talk to anyone, you don't have to go and introduce yourself to anybody. Everyone comes and talks to you, everyone knows.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Yeah, mingling is suddenly very easy. Yes, totally.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

Um Okay. Okay, so you want to do more of that. Are you working on are you still going to be working on selling the courses, or is your focus more on how do I how do I do more of this? How do I get in front of more people in person? And the courses is kind of on on hold almost.

SPEAKER_01 18:14

The courses had been I I mean, for the last uh six months I would say, I have de-emphasized the monetization stuff, like in terms of developing new things, because I, you know, there's only so much time in the day. And I decided that I really what I needed to focus on was building that platform because everything becomes so much easier when you have a bigger platform. So I really focused on YouTube, getting a TEDx talk and prepping for that and getting the book ready to be published. So building up those platform pieces to kind of start to reach that next level. And then, I mean, I do have the courses that are existing currently sitting there. It's fine. Um, and then that's going to be what I'm gonna start ramping up again next is is building out more um and doing more marketing of of courses for the back end because you know, TEDx is is great, it's free. It was free, but I got TEDx speakers don't get paid. So, you know, of course I have to do both. I have to work on the monetization strategies and also building the platform. But I find that if I give myself seasons where I'm focusing on one or the other, it tends to work better for me. I am

Email Opt-ins With Better Hooks

SPEAKER_01 19:30

less scattered and less, you know, dividing myself amongst too many things.

SPEAKER_00 19:35

What's your I was looking at your numbers in terms of the the email list. Because you got a good size email list, right? It's 62,000.

SPEAKER_01 19:42

62,000, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:43

But in terms of the percentage, like because you got a you got a 600 and 680,000 views a month on YouTube. I think you if you want to, and I I from a money point of view, it would definitely make sense. I think you could grow that email list probably quite a lot faster than you are doing at the moment. What's the current kind of approach in terms of like how do you get people onto the email list from YouTube?

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah, good question. So what I almost in 95% of my videos, I have a call to action for to download, to download some kind of freebie or join um, I have a free five-day challenge called the reset. It's like an email thing. It's evergreen. And um so I usually choose one relevant um either like a download, free download, or um that free challenge. And so then I always work that into my content somewhere and drop that call to action to get people onto my list.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

And then do you link to it from um like description, pinned comment, that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Yeah, it's linked in the description. So I mention it verbally and then it's linked in the description.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Okay. Because you're getting at the moment, if you're getting 2,000 opt-ins a month from 680,000 views, what does that work out as? Like 0.3% or something? 30,000 views. Times. So this is not hard and fast rule, right? But most YouTube creators we see can can get up to at least a 1% opt-in rate. Which, if that's the case for you, that means you could get three times as many opt-ins a month, which is obviously huge. Now, it sounds like you're doing a lot of stuff right already. So I'm kind of curious as to maybe what's missing there. I'm just gonna click through to your YouTube channel and it's probably gonna start playing your intro video. So don't be surprised. Okay, let's go have a little look at some of your videos. How to find your life's purpose. And this is this is some deep stuff, Kim. I'm gonna have to go watch this afterwards. Okay. Join the reset five day channel. Do you know do you have any analytics for one minute, I'm just gonna share screen from my percentages?

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

From the opt-in um pages. Yeah, I'll share screen and then I'll describe everybody listening. Don't worry, I'm gonna describe what I can see. So what I'm just kind of sh going through, having a look at with Kim now, is this is one of her opt-in pages for the free five-day challenge to reclaim your energy, focus, and mindset. And if I click on sign me up towards the top, it's got uh opt-in and then first name and put your email address in, and then that would I'm gonna click sign me up there and see what happens next. That gets you a uh a page saying check your inbox to get started. Do you do you sorry to put you on the spot like this, but do you reckon you can get the um do you know the percentages for that in terms of how many people who get to that page then then uh opt in?

SPEAKER_01 22:46

I am just pulling that up. Hang on. Alright, cool. Bear with me. Okay, so let's see. The reset opt-in. Version rate is 57%.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Okay, so that's really strong. The the normal we see at that stage is about 70. So it's not like you're you're not like beating benchmark, but you're not miles off either. It's only like, you know, 15% 15% under. Okay. That'll be really interesting to kind of look at that then. I'm gonna, if it's alright, I'm gonna have a look through afterwards and see if I can figure out what's the what's because you uh you should be getting higher opt-ins, I think. Like I've had clients who have got up to like two percent opt-in rate, but most people we can get to one percent. And so I'll have a little look and I'll see if I can figure that out. I can't see it off the just right away from looking at it.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Uh which is interesting. Okay. Do you have you ex uh Well that that opt-in percentage.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

Sorry, now that you now that I'm looking at this, because now I'm looking at my other lead pages and um other opt-ins, because that that particular one is one that recently I have been using more. Um and it's got a lower, like I have another ultimate morning routine menu opt-in that gets 73% um conversion self-care checklist opt-in, 68%. Um so I'm wondering if maybe um because the so that particular opt-in, the reset, it is a five-day challenge. So that does, I wonder, I have wondered this myself actually, if it represents a little bit more of a barrier for somebody because it's not just like a one and done thing. It's like they're making a bit of a commitment to five days with me, you know, essentially. And so maybe, maybe it maybe that shouldn't what I like about it though, is is it really does a great job of building the relationship afterwards, like after they opt in, because then I, you know, have their permission daily emails for five days, and I get a lot of uh responses to those emails, people coming back and making changes and things. So I feel like I'm really priming those people very nicely. But the the just the straight numbers, maybe it's because it's uh self-select, people select in, select out.

SPEAKER_00 24:59

Yeah, that is important because like if you look at webinars, they have a lower, similar to challenges, they have a lower opt-in rate compared to other lead magnets, but they have a higher conversion rate to sales. So it's like, well then that's okay, right?

SPEAKER_02 25:10

That's not a problem, you know. Right.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

One thing

Thank You Page Tripwire Strategy

SPEAKER_00 25:13

that you do have at the moment that I'm just gonna share screen again. This is that page that we were looking at. Um this one here. This is your this is your confirmation page after someone's opt in, opted in for the lead magnet. And what a lot of people don't realise is that this is actually um you can use this. It's basically the highest converting um page in your entire funnel. Any any step. And the reason is it can be if you use it in the right way. And the reason is that um when you send out an email promotion, there's only a percentage of people who open it, only a percentage of people who click, and then those people get through to the sales page. Well, now you've got a good chance of of getting their attention and making a sale. But everybody, every single person who opts in to your email list sees this page.

SPEAKER_01 26:04

Lands on the thank you page. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

So what we tend to do is set up like a low-ticket item at that stage, call it a tripwire final, and it converts generally somewhere between about three and ten percent of people will buy. Now, obviously, because it's lower ticket, you're not talking like massive revenue, but it does two things. One, it works on autopilot, so just every month you're getting some sales coming in. So if you're getting 2,000 people seeing that page, if that converted at 10%, um and if you had, let's say, I don't know, sixty dollars is the average um uh order value that people uh were paying at that point, then you'd be making $12,000 a month. Like just just by default, when you even when you're not doing anything else. Which is great, right? It's just really nice. But the second thing that it does is if you're selling something that people really like and then they they buy it, they really like it, then they're much more likely to buy something else from you.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:05

I have used tripwires, not on that particular option, but I have. I usually do um like a much lower ticket thing, like a $27 kind of thing, because it's I I figure that they're coming to me cold-ish. Um and so I'm offering something lower. And it has well, I've had I've tried a couple of different tripwires. Um, and one was like a digital planner, one was one is a thing that I actually really like. It's called the Habit Builder Kit, and um it's kind of a bundle of digital downloads and things and templates and stuff for for creating perfect as a tripwire.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Yeah. And that has done really well. Um, but I did just I have just recently put that together in the last couple months. Again, like as I said, I've been kind of de-emphasizing the monetization side of things um because I only have so much candidates. Just so much to do. So much. But I do, I think you're right, like, because the people because when I think about that from a psychology perspective, the people who are opting into the reset, if they've decided that they're gonna spend five days with me, then they are more, you know, on board with what I'm saying and doing. And and it's not necessarily true that they are totally cold, like because they might have watched a few of my YouTube videos and then and then decided to opt in. So yeah, I think you're right. I think that I probably should be optimizing the use of that thank you page to at least offer something.

SPEAKER_00 28:31

Do you know how your tripwire has performed in terms of conversion on any when you've had it in any other places?

SPEAKER_01 28:36

Yeah, I have looked at that. I don't I haven't looked at that recently. I've been kind of ignoring that particular metric. I use SAMCart and look at the metrics from that. Yeah. Okay. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Cool.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, it's been variable and the planner was not as good, but the habit builder kit was doing really well.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Nice, nice. Because one of the things that I mean it makes a massive difference what the like how well they line up together. Like whatever you're selling as the uh giving away for free as the lead magnet, and then whatever you're selling as a tripwire, like our best performing one we've ever had, to my knowledge, is um Teal Swan, and she had uh five free meditations was the was the lead magnet. And then the meditation vault, which was like 30 meditations, was the tripwire. And so perfect fitted perfectly. Perfect alignment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

So it's like, okay, if you'd like five, maybe you'd like 30. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

I watched a talk from a guy, um, you know, Digital Marketer. I don't know if they're still around, but that was like a uh digital marketing training company back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Anyway, okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Um I went to one of their conferences and and a guy was giving a talk about how they were about the importance of this step. And he said, We were selling t-shirts we were selling t-shirts and we were trying to figure out what the upsell should be, and we thought maybe hoodies would be good, because if you buy like t-shirts, maybe like hoodies. And it kind of did all right. And then we tried selling more t-shirts. And that worked better. Because you know what people who buy t-shirts buy t-shirts. More t-shirts.

SPEAKER_01 30:07

That's so funny. And it it seems so captain obvious. Like it just like, yes, uh, clearly. But it seems like almost too obvious. Like, no, people must surely they want some variety in their like surely they want something else. But that is not necessarily true.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Aaron Powell It's like in the supplement space, if the standard system for supplement upsells is you you sell one bottle of the thing, and then the upsell is you sell three bottles of the thing, and then the upsell to that is you sell seven bottles of the thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Right. Oh my god. I mean, this is not rocket science. It feels like super obvious. Too obvious. Hmm. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 30:44

I

Visionary Versus Integrator Mindset

SPEAKER_00 30:45

struggle with stuff that's too obvious. I uh luckily I've got Yosip on my team who like he he just grounds me. Like I'm more of like a uh visionary type and I'm like, oh new ideas, things to try, do this, yeah. And he's like, yeah, but we've already got this thing that's working. Why why do you want to do something else? Why don't we just carry on and do more of the thing that's working? And I'm like, that's so boring.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Boring. Boring. Yeah, exactly. That is so that's a really interesting point that you make because yes, you need somebody who's got a brain that works in a different way than like the visionary. Have you read the emyth?

SPEAKER_03 31:18

Huh? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Yeah. Like, so you're the visionary CEO kind of person who's got like the creative ideas and like, let's do this and let's try that. And I'm the same. And so I'm like, no, boring. Why would you just want to do the same thing? There's just endless ways that we could do this, and let's come up with different creative products. But yeah, sometimes it's just the super obvious next exact, just more of the same, which feels super boring, but it works. If it works, it works.

SPEAKER_00 31:46

My friends, my girlfriend, they're all like, when I'm like, Oh, I've got this new idea, they're like, Have you talked to Yosip?

SPEAKER_02 31:54

They know.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

Because I know how this goes. You'll spend two weeks working on it, and and then you'll be like, Oh no, that didn't actually work. That was like it wasn't wasn't as great of an idea as I originally thought it was. And then I'll talk to Yosip and he'll be like, Yeah, yeah, I didn't, I did, I could have told you that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

But it's fun to run experiments too, though, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:14

No, you need both, I think. I think you do. Um the I think the the not the dynamic, it's almost like the the friction between those two personality types, I think, really helps. Yeah. It's like because the person who is the the solid, fixed in reality one is less likely to have something that jumps you forwards. But the person who does comes up with crazy ideas are more likely to get jump forwards, but they're also more likely to go off in completely the wrong direction. So it's like I think that the You need the both.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yes. It's true. It's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:50

I went off to a conference recently as well. I was organizing it as in uh out in Lisbon, and there was a guy we had come uh gave a talk there, and he was explaining how he had just sold all of his companies last year, and he was now building his new company with just AI. So he was building it using uh OpenClaw, and he had built 17 different bots, 17 different agents, like a CEO agent, a CFO agent, a copywriter agent, a designer agent, all of that. And they all talked to each other through through OpenClaw. And he could watch it in Slack, he could watch them all having these conversations.

SPEAKER_03 33:29

Oh goodness.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

And I was like, oh my god, like massively inspired, like, right, I'm gonna go build. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. So then on the last day of the conference, I got up early and I worked for I had this idea, I was like, this whole big system that I was gonna build, and I built out version one of it in like a couple of hours, and then I like iterated on it for a couple of weeks, and I gave it to I showed it to Joseph and the team, whatever, and it's like changes the business, like mass it just completely like moves us in a great new direction. But then I spent another three weeks working on like, oh, now I'm gonna do this with it. And I'm now convinced that that was a that was a terrible idea. So it's like you kind of got to have a you get a bit of both, you know?

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Absolutely, yeah. But I mean, I agree. You need you need both you need those like creative, uh interesting, pushing the out the boundaries, pushing the envelope things, and then you need the like solid, steady state um procedures. So you need it all.

SPEAKER_00 34:23

For sure. Are you is there anybody else in your business? Is it just you? Do you have a team?

SPEAKER_01 34:27

I have a team, yeah. I mean, I have a video editor who um because that was that was pretty crucial for me. I have a social media manager, and then I have a virtual assistant.

SPEAKER_03 34:36

Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:37

And in some of my programs, I also have um because ones that have more engagement and customer service um and coaching calls. I have some associate coaches who do the coaching for me.

SPEAKER_00 34:48

So what do you do when you need grounding? Who helps get you?

SPEAKER_01 34:52

You know, it's it's good that you asked that because as you were describing it, I was like, I don't really have a Yosef. Like I'm wondering if I need somebody who is just like, no, Kim, stop getting crazy. Like, let's just keep let's just stay with the program here for a little longer. Yeah, maybe I do. I mean, I know I have gaps on my team, somebody who's gonna be more of the ex like an egg. Um I started reading uh Rocket Fuel recently because I really think I need one of the like an integrator. I don't have that person currently, but um it's uh that's not the easiest to find.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

I describe Yosip to people and they're like, I need a Yosip. How did you find him? I'm like, luck. I I didn't, I can I have nothing for you. Like I can't give you like a conf like a complicated strategy. You do this and this and this. No, I was just lucky. I'm just I'm I I just all I know is yes, try and do that.

SPEAKER_01 35:49

Yeah, I know. I went to um last summer Ali Abdal was um having uh a um mastermind in person, and because I spend my summers in London, so I went to that. It was for um not his big thing for YouTube creators, but like it was there's only 15 of us that were there. Um and uh and and plus his whole team, it was awesome, actually. It was just so it was such a great mastermind. Um, and to have some serious one-on-one time with Ali was great. And um, but his his right-hand man, Angus, I was like, I need an Angus. I need a guy who is just like does all the stuff, like manages all the people, the team, and then because that frees up Ali to just be like the ideas guy and the creation guy. And so I feel like that's what I need. I still haven't found that person yet, though.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

I tell you, I heard a talk from somebody about how he found I think it was this kind of person. It was certainly like somebody, it was certainly a very senior role. And what his approach, I thought I thought was genius, but I've not tried it myself. So take this uh um I can't like vouch for it personally. But what he did was he went on to LinkedIn and he searched for people from similar but bigger companies than his. So he was running a coaching business, like uh uh he would coach I think it was like coaching for how to get a job as a as a as a consultant at like a management consultant firm that like he'd done. I think it was something like that, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

So they ran this coaching program. And so there's a load of coaching programs out there, and it didn't need to be in the same kind of niche, but he found people who had like done the whatever it was, marketing or COO or whatever role for that for that kind of company. And who weren't like the owner, they weren't the CEO of it, but they were like in the the bit of that business that he was particularly interested in. And then he reached out to them and said, Hey, I'd love to hire you uh for a day to come and help me review my business and like figure out how I can grow it. And then if they replied, he'd say, like, what's your what's your day rate? And just he'd just whatever they told him it was, is what he was paying. It's like you know, he didn't think too much about that. So that got him the opinions of like 10 or 15 people who were like super smart from businesses that were bigger than his about what he was he should be doing. So that's already great. But then at the end of that, the ones of those that he thought had done a really good job and he really liked, he then gave them like a bigger, like a one week, okay, that was really amazing. Could you do this bigger project for me? If they did a great job on that, then at the end of it, he was like, Do you want to come and work for me as like, you know, running this business or whatever?

SPEAKER_01 38:23

And I'm like, Brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 38:25

That it kind of is, isn't it? Yeah.

unknown 38:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

So maybe that's it. Maybe that's the answer.

SPEAKER_01 38:30

Yeah, that might be something to think about to to try doing. Yeah, because then you get some work done and you're auditioning people at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Yeah, yeah. Now, obviously, there'll be a whole lot of people who would have been a good candidate who w who aren't interested in doing some work on the side, but if you just message them about I'm looking to hire somebody. But like if I'm wanting to hire somebody, I don't trust my interview skills at all. I don't think interviews are that great for figuring out who's good. I always do test tasks anyway, to like see how well did they do the job, not how well did they talk about doing the job.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Right. It's too hypothetical and abstract otherwise.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

Yeah, exactly. And I'd like I'm staggered by how many people use interviews as a system for like I know loads of people who are great at doing work and suck at interviews.

SPEAKER_01 39:14

Right. And vice versa, which would be a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

I've hired the ones who are vice versa, because I've made that mistake and be like, oh this person sounds amazing. It's like, yeah, but they just sound amazing. That's not, you know, that's not much help. Okay.

From YouTuber To Bookable Speaker

SPEAKER_00 39:26

I want to just circle back to something you said earlier about like the the kind of you're trying to get more like in-person stuff. How are you doing that? What's your what's your plan with that?

SPEAKER_01 39:35

Yeah. Well, um, this is also an excellent question. I'm doing a few things. So I actually tomorrow I'm doing a workshop on um becoming a bookable speaker. Um, because I I think when I I think what I've identified in terms of how to translate what I do, uh like to go from being I feel like people, if they encounter my work, they think of me as a YouTuber, not necessarily as a speaker. And so I need to translate how what I talk about and what I do into something that is really easily bookable for event planners and conference organizers, that kind of thing, to just say, ah yeah, perfect, can visualize her in this slot, let's book her in. So I think I need to do a little bit of behind the scenes work on first of all, on making sort of packaging what I do and what I talk about into a really readily and visibly bookable kind of package. Um, and then from there, uh that's where I feel a little stuck because I I have tried to do some cold pitching. Cold pitching's the worst.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah, isn't it though? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:53

I mean, I have absolutely no idea if things are even getting read because most of the time there's no response whatsoever. So I can't do anything with that because I can't get any feedback on whether it was interesting, but it was bad timing or whether my topic wasn't right or anything. So um, so I think what I my thinking, what I want to do next is work really a lot more on relationship building and connections and networking. Because I I have a feeling that that is how most of the like speaking stuff g happens. Because I tend to see like the same names and faces turning up at the same at events and things. And I think I think it's because you sort of are there once you're in that whatever inner circle for whatever field or niche or area it is, then I think that it's m it's easier to then just get booked word of mouth um rather than through cold pitches coming at you. So yeah. But I mean, if you have any thoughts on that, I'm open to it.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Oh no, I don't know. I just like I'm the places where I've been asked to talk on stage has been I'm in a community already and they know me. And then it's like it's it's uh you know, I there's only so much of that you can do, right? We've got a friend who's um he's in one of the one of the big uh online business oh no, just business owner communities. And uh he just went off and did a a speaking tour of like something ridiculous, like 13 conferences in 22 days. And I'm like, Wow. Oh dude, that sounds tiring. Are you sure you want your life to be that? And he's like, No, I don't I actually don't know.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

That's gotta be a sprint, like that's just a sprint, and then it'll sort of he'll go into a different season as a few.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

Oh yeah, he doesn't carry on doing that all the time, but it's like that was yeah, even so that's a that's a lot, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 42:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Um but again that was because he was in that he was in that community and he did one and then he kind of, you know, was then asked to go do more. And so that worked well. But no, I don't really know. I'm just kind of just curious about it because it's like uh it's so different to YouTube, online courses, work from anywhere, don't have to be in person, you know.

unknown 43:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 43:02

Like, no, no, no, I want to be in person. I'm gonna go do it.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yeah, yeah. It is a different approach for sure.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Yeah.

Links And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 43:09

Well, this has been awesome. I'm definitely gonna go check out some of your videos after this. If people want to look at your website, they want to see your YouTube channel, what should they search for? What should they be looking for?

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Yeah, my website, I mean, of course, it's my home base and hub, drkimfoster.com. Um, and from there you can go to everything, my YouTube channel, uh, you know, everything that I do. Um and yeah, my my YouTube channel is Kim FosterMD.

SPEAKER_00 43:34

KimfosterMD and drkimfoster.com. Yeah. Amazing. Well, I really look forward to seeing how it all goes. And uh I look hope the book launch is fantastically successful. Fingers crossed for you for that. Um as always, thank you so much for everybody for listening. And if you want to get hold of the stuff about I mentioned about the customer avatar, drop me an email, John John at data drivenmarketing.co, and I'll send it through. The only thing I ask with that is you've got to actually promise me that you'll do the work in there. And then I will if you promise me that, I'm gonna send it to you for free. Um Kim, thanks again for coming on. This has been absolutely fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Thanks so much, John.